any of y'all into working out?

[PIMking]

I love leg day. I try to do something on legs every day I'm at the gym and then a dedicated leg day


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[TheSutterDynasty]

There are a lot of squat and deadlifting injuries, especially the low back.

You should only squat/deadlift to the depth your hips allow. 95% of the time this is dictated by the depth of your hip socket, NOT flexibility. You can't change this.

Most of the "proper technique" videos have flexion occurring at L4-S1.

I think this is why a lot of people don't work legs.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

A lot of guys I've talked to don't like doing legs because it hurts. Most muscles don't start really hurting while you're working out until just before failure. Legs start hurting looong before you actually reach failure. Anyone who has done 20 rep squat sets will tell you that you can keep going long after the pain starts. A lot of guys just don't have the mental fortitude to tough it out through a hard leg workout

Love the 20 rep squat workout.

It's not so much pain as it is a feeling that the weight is going to destroy your soul. It's really all mental fortitude for about reps 13+. I find it's just as grueling on my core, back, and shoulders as my legs though.

The DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness), which starts about 2 days later is the hardest to deal with. I've found "flushing" my muscles with a light jog helps, but it's still bad.

[AcGold]

Imo it's not the mental aspect as much as it is the form. Squats are a little counter intuitive; hips go back first and push from the hamstrings.... almost nobody is going to just guess that and even a lot of trainers have no clue.

A lot of people have the mental ability to do them but not enough information on how to do them properly. It's actually quite astounding how easy it is to injure yourself with so many different workouts. Hell, even an upright row can destroy your shoulders.

[something]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

There are a lot of squat and deadlifting injuries, especially the low back.

You should only squat/deadlift to the depth your hips allow. 95% of the time this is dictated by the depth of your hip socket, NOT flexibility. You can't change this.

Most of the "proper technique" videos have flexion occurring at L4-S1.

I think this is why a lot of people don't work legs.

And how would you determine what depth this is?

As I squat, I prefer and advocate to others depth in range of motion. I like the "ass to grass" mentality.

Also, for deadlifts, the range of motion in the hips shouldn't be so great (I wouldn't think). I don't see much of a need to go past 90 degrees.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Girls don't care for big legs, thus it gets worked the least.

I like doing legs on fridays cause everyone else is doing tri's and bi's.

There are very few sights that are as funny as super swoll dudes with chicken legs, wearing shorts.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Imo it's not the mental aspect as much as it is the form. Squats are a little counter intuitive; hips go back first and push from the hamstrings.... almost nobody is going to just guess that and even a lot of trainers have no clue.

A lot of people have the mental ability to do them but not enough information on how to do them properly. It's actually quite astounding how easy it is to injure yourself with so many different workouts. Hell, even an upright row can destroy your shoulders.

The natural instinct is to treat the squat like a leg press. People have their feet underneath their hips and then just bend their knees. Then they lower their torso at the end to make the bar go lower.

As you say, the squat is initiated in the hips and engages the posterior chain.

I'd definitely recommend getting a good trainer before seriously getting into working out. That excludes most trainers who work at gyms.

[V]

That's some nice workout gear you've got. I'm jealous.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by blankall

The natural instinct is to treat the squat like a leg press. People have their feet underneath their hips and then just bend their knees. Then they lower their torso at the end to make the bar go lower.

As you say, the squat is initiated in the hips and engages the posterior chain.

I'd definitely recommend getting a good trainer before seriously getting into working out. That excludes most trainers who work at gyms.

Seems like only a fraction of trainers know much if anything, I've known several kinesiology students/trainers and none of them had any idea on the subject. Same with deadlifts, benchpress, injuries and impingement.

The information is fairly concise at this point in time but also hard to find as well. There should be charts by all the workout areas on the basic motions of each exercise and the potential injuries. The amount of people that benchpress properly is near 4-5%, squats even less. I remember seeing one guy the entire year actually squatting properly, it's so vastly misunderstood for such a simple movement. Deadlifts maybe even worse, in my life I've seen maybe 3 or 4 people deadlifting properly in person.

[V]

So where do you go for a trainer then?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Seems like only a fraction of trainers know much if anything, I've known several kinesiology students/trainers and none of them had any idea on the subject. Same with deadlifts, benchpress, injuries and impingement.

The information is fairly concise at this point in time but also hard to find as well. There should be charts by all the workout areas on the basic motions of each exercise and the potential injuries. The amount of people that benchpress properly is near 4-5%, squats even less. I remember seeing one guy the entire year actually squatting properly, it's so vastly misunderstood for such a simple movement. Deadlifts maybe even worse, in my life I've seen maybe 3 or 4 people deadlifting properly in person.

Deadlifting is variable, as there are also sorts of styles, and some that even require you to do things like keep your legs straight.

I'd agree though, most trainers are awful, and most people you see working out at the gym have no idea what they are doing. The issue is that many trainers are just salespeople hired by the gyms.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by V

So where do you go for a trainer then?

I'd try and find someone who has actual experience with powerlifting competition or at the very least an actual power lifting class. Mark Ripptoe also offers a "Starting Strength Certification" for trainers.

[AcGold]

Even though there is variability in the deadlifts there are some basics that are constant. Lift with legs and hips first, keep neutral spine, don't overextend at the peak of the lift, don't roll the shoulders, fluid motion for all body parts throughout the entire movement. All the same sumo or conventional. I find sumo way less taxing on the joints fwiw.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'd try and find someone who has actual experience with powerlifting competition or at the very least an actual power lifting class. Mark Ripptoe also offers a "Starting Strength Certification" for trainers.

Isn't a lot of powerlifting very different from other lifting? I don't know as much as some of you guys, but I thought that the way powerlifters did some of the exercises was quite a bit different from people who are just weight training.

I work out at home and have a power rack and free weights. I have no doubt that if I lifted at the gym I would feel like an idiot though! One of the most annoying things about the sport/hobby/whole thing is what seems like a constant need to judge and critique other peoples exercises and techniques. I really like this thread because it seems like people here are giving genuine advice without that.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Slava

Isn't a lot of powerlifting very different from other lifting? I don't know as much as some of you guys, but I thought that the way powerlifters did some of the exercises was quite a bit different from people who are just weight training.

I work out at home and have a power rack and free weights. I have no doubt that if I lifted at the gym I would feel like an idiot though! One of the most annoying things about the sport/hobby/whole thing is what seems like a constant need to judge and critique other peoples exercises and techniques. I really like this thread because it seems like people here are giving genuine advice without that.

Powerlifting competitions include bench press, deadlifts, and squats. These are some of the main exercises to base your regular weight training around. Competency in these lifts will get you a long way and save you a lot of time.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by blankall

Powerlifting competitions include bench press, deadlifts, and squats. These are some of the main exercises to base your regular weight training around. Competency in these lifts will get you a long way and save you a lot of time.

Right but the actual techniques that power lifters use aren't the same, or at least that is my understanding.

[AcGold]

^ no their form isn't identical because the forces and lever mechanics of the lifts dictate different tension patterns for each person, however there are mistakes that are the same for every person. If you can avoid those mistakes then you're better off than 99% of people, the rest is figuring out what works for you. I prefer a wide stance deadlift with a really deep kind of sumo stance, others are much different but the key mechanics remain the same.

Deadlifts, squats, dips and chinups is nearly an entire body workout. You can accomplish more in 45 minutes with that workout than most people do in a week with several hours at the gym. I lifted for years and as soon as I put in deadlifts and squats I found immediate changes, most notably in that taking breaks from working out doesn't result in quick losses. Deep core strength doesn't go away like the more superficial isolation strength most workouts create.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right but the actual techniques that power lifters use aren't the same, or at least that is my understanding.

Don't watch them during competitions. They'll sacrifice their form to get those extra few pounds and win the meet. However, an accomplished powerlifter will know his lifts inside and out. During training, they'll typically keep excellent form. I'm not recommending that you go with just any power lifter, but one with a good history of coaching and teaching lifts and proper certification.

As AcGold stated there are variations in each lift based on the individual. Things like length of limbs, height, flexibility, weight, etc...will all dictate what is the exact best form for you. Also like AcGold stated a major impact with deadlifts and squats will be on core strength. You'll never need to do a sit-up again, but when you do them you'll rock at them.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Power lifters are the very last people you should ask for tips on form. They sacrifice form for their lifts. Just watch them bench, enough said.

To find your squat depth, you can try the hockey stick on the back. Make sure it contacts your upper back and sacrum. As soon as you feel your sacrum slide on the stick, you're getting the "hip wink", which is flexion down low at L5 S1. There are a few other tests but they're hard to describe.

Many people squat through the hip wink. Go for it. But theres much more loading on your discs with flexion, especially the most vulnerable lower lumbar. You hurt that disc and good luck going back into that hip wink.

Watch olympic lifters. They can all full squat with no hip wink. The ones who can't don't make it far. Only the odd genetic freak.

[rubecube]

What's the verdict on toes facing out vs. straightforward on squats? I used to make a concerted effort to keep my toes facing forward but found it too hard on my hips. Facing out seems to work a lot better and also allows me to use more weight.