[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Cappy]

I have no doubt that construction projects take time. Look at office towers or condo buildings. The thing is, those buildings are released to the public when they have their ducks in a row. Renderings, floor plans, costs, etc.

Who cares how long CalgaryNEXT was working the backrooms of City Hall, they released a half-assed render too early. half-baked is appropriate given the analogy.

Nenshi comments today about CalgaryNEXT: sounds like they don't have any of that stuff either. Could it be that KK lied?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bBK...ature=youtu.be

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Lanny's Stache

Sure Nenshi has a great education, but his problems really appear to be ego and personality at this point.

I can absolutely understand that he has issues with the proposal as presented. I think most reasonable people do. But to take a run at them with this dismissive language is just unproductive. It really seems like he only likes his own ideas and basically openly mocks others that don't fit into his narrow vision of the city. It is getting tired.

I would hope that the Mayor would be open to working with a group of people that are committed long term to the city. Again, that doesn't mean just saying yes, but at least try to work with them without mocking them.

This is how he ran his classrooms too at MRU.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Muta

Wow.

You're right, he forgot to say "Field House!".

Edmonton started talking about an arena, what, one year ahead of us? And they are now watching it rise. Yes they steamrolled the municipal government, and yes there is no stadium or FIELD HOUSE!!!! but we set here with some vague massing drawings and a rough financial proposal.


"We got some maps, this stuff can probably fit, and we are going to build a stadium, but crappier.. because... FIELD HOUSE! $200MM plz"

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Here's what I'd like to know. Forgetting the debate over whether this is being handled well by the Flames or not, for arguments sake, lets just assume that everything the people so upset in here are saying is true. Flames have made no progress, announced it years ago, going to be a long grind, etc.......

Even if all of that were true, what is it about that fact that has got those in here who as so offended and upset by this in their current state of mind? What is driving that passion about the break ground and ribbon cutting on a new rink, and what has got them so assured that because of the above timelines that KK is doing a terrible job?

Isn't it actually true, that the Flames have as long as they believe they have to make this happen? Aren't the only ones who actually have an urgency at this point to get this done is the Flames, and if they feel like they have 2 years, 5 years, 10 years to complete this thing, then they do? It's not like the building is hurting them on ticket sales yet. So only they know just how much money they are losing out on increased box revenues, increased concessions and increased concerts are costing them. And if they are comfortable with that knowledge, what is it that has some fans so riled up that this must happen now, and we are so behind etc...?

To me, it must be one of the following:
- People litterally just can't contain themselves and once something is put on their radar, then need instant gratification and know all the details.
- They are sad that Edmonton is getting a new rink, and somehow see this as Edmonton one upping us and for some reason that personally offends them.
- Do you currently hate your experience at the Dome that much that you are thinking of not coming to games anymore?
- Your favourite band keeps missing tour dates in Calgary?
- Are you actually worried we might never get an arena and the Flames will play in the Dome forever
- Are you actually worried we might never get an arena and the Flames will leave town.

To me, the Flames have as much time as they think they have from a financial perspective, and if they aren't in a rush, why would we be? There has been no "we need a new rink or we are moving talk". So why get so fired up? Don't get me wrong, I'll be excited to go to a new rink and see the games when that time comes, but right now, I'm also still excited to head to the Dome and watch the Flames, so I just don't get the urgency some have on here.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The Flames saw that the city had a plan for the future for the west village. Then they plunked there building down on the prime land of the area, and assumed that the city would be all supportive of the idea, and would have no issues with how the area works.

I think that is a really important point that is often overlooked; no one seems to consider the opportunity cost associated with that real estate. The problems with the West Village are actually easier to deal with than in the East Village, because all it takes is money (albeit lots of money). Your resulting land is as prime as it gets considering proximity to downtown, the river, and quality of surrounding communities. It's always going to feel like a safer, more desirable place to live than the East Village. I think the arena district closer to East Village would do a lot to help the vibrancy of that area; something I think would be unnecessary for future West Village development.

I realize this is fantasy at this point, but I think the Remington Lot area (between Olympic Way-Calgary Transit Building and 12 ave to CN rail tracks) would be far more suitable for the building(s). My understanding is that Stampede does not have any lease for this area, but they do have an arrangement to use it for parking during 10 day event.

It would be tougher to fit that the football stadium into that space unless you can go south of 12 ave (or CTS building) which is technically Stampede land. Since Stampede's expansion plans have fallen flat (and losing the main arena in town will certainly not help in the future), I think the city could help broker a deal to make an extra block of land into Stampede territory available (currently used as a parking lot and small admin building for IT staff), which I think the Stampede might welcome anyways as they would get a chance to maintain some parking revenues.

I would use the slice of land between 9 ave and train tracks for commercial with significant underground parking, and tunnel/overhead pedestrian access across the tracks to the new building area. This would help remove the barrier feeling from the train tracks right now at the south end of East Village.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I have no doubt that construction projects take time. Look at office towers or condo buildings. The thing is, those buildings are released to the public when they have their ducks in a row. Renderings, floor plans, costs, etc.

Who cares how long CalgaryNEXT was working the backrooms of City Hall, they released a half-assed render too early. half-baked is appropriate given the analogy.

Nenshi comments today about CalgaryNEXT: sounds like they don't have any of that stuff either. Could it be that KK lied?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bBK...ature=youtu.be

Boy, if you watch the actual video you get the sense that Nenshi isnt pleased at all with what the Flames have brought forth, nor does he seem to appreciate the way King has been attempting to sell it.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Here's what I'd like to know. Forgetting the debate over whether this is being handled well by the Flames or not, for arguments sake, lets just assume that everything the people so upset in here are saying is true. Flames have made no progress, announced it years ago, going to be a long grind, etc.......

Even if all of that were true, what is it about that fact that has got those in here who as so offended and upset by this in their current state of mind? What is driving that passion about the break ground and ribbon cutting on a new rink, and what has got them so assured that because of the above timelines that KK is doing a terrible job?

Isn't it actually true, that the Flames have as long as they believe they have to make this happen? Aren't the only ones who actually have an urgency at this point to get this done is the Flames, and if they feel like they have 2 years, 5 years, 10 years to complete this thing, then they do? It's not like the building is hurting them on ticket sales yet. So only they know just how much money they are losing out on increased box revenues, increased concessions and increased concerts are costing them. And if they are comfortable with that knowledge, what is it that has some fans so riled up that this must happen now, and we are so behind etc...?

To me, it must be one of the following:
- People litterally just can't contain themselves and once something is put on their radar, then need instant gratification and know all the details.
- They are sad that Edmonton is getting a new rink, and somehow see this as Edmonton one upping us and for some reason that personally offends them.
- Do you currently hate your experience at the Dome that much that you are thinking of not coming to games anymore?
- Your favourite band keeps missing tour dates in Calgary?
- Are you actually worried we might never get an arena and the Flames will play in the Dome forever
- Are you actually worried we might never get an arena and the Flames will leave town.

To me, the Flames have as much time as they think they have from a financial perspective, and if they aren't in a rush, why would we be? There has been no "we need a new rink or we are moving talk". So why get so fired up? Don't get me wrong, I'll be excited to go to a new rink and see the games when that time comes, but right now, I'm also still excited to head to the Dome and watch the Flames, so I just don't get the urgency some have on here.

For me its not a question of being impatient to get a new arena. I'm in no hurry.

It's a question of a company proposing an absolutely massive construction project, and wanting oceans of public money for it, but haven't done a particularly convincing job of managing the project to date.

They're a long way in, with very little to show for it. They don't seem to have involved the city in their plans, even though they want the city to provide the land, provide the funds, and be the owners of the project. Their funding proposals have no basis in reality, because they completely ignore two of the biggest costs in the project (city infrastructure and environmental remediation). After they presented a quite vague proposal, the biggest stakeholder in the project is decidedly cool and non-committal, with the mayor's office calling it half baked, and saying they didn't do their homework.

My problem with it is that they want hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money, but don't seem to have their **** together.

[Tyler]

I think this whole situation paints Ken King and the Flames in a really negative light.

This is probably a good example of why you shouldn't hire newspaper people to manage billion dollar construction projects.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Even if all of that were true, what is it about that fact that has got those in here who as so offended and upset by this in their current state of mind?

I'm assuming that some people are upset because Ken King & Co. are acting like they have a World Class development proposal but it is actually a preliminary concept. They are trying to sell us a plan but they only have an under-researched idea.

[Scary Eloranta]

A lot of people on here seem to hate two things the most: cost to taxpayers and location/lack of parking. What if they ditch the fieldhouse/stadium and turn that into parking and just build an arena. I wonder if people would be more on board with that? Original cost is split in half and Flames pitch in same amount as they're proposing now. Of course the Stamps are screwed but does anyone really care? I do, but I get the sense that most people don't.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

A lot of people on here seem to hate two things the most: cost to taxpayers and location/lack of parking. What if they ditch the fieldhouse/stadium and turn that into parking and just build an arena. I wonder if people would be more on board with that? Original cost is split in half and Flames pitch in same amount as they're proposing now.

It doesn't halve the cost because the environmental clean-up and municiple infrastructure aren't included in their financing plan.

To say nothing of the fact that if you remove the fieldhouse then what little public good was included in the original proposal is now gone completely.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

A lot of people on here seem to hate two things the most: cost to taxpayers and location/lack of parking.

With the location and proximity to public transport, parking isn't one of the major hurdles along the path to development approval. It may not even be a hurdle. Using the land for parking would probably be more difficult.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

It doesn't halve the cost because the environmental clean-up and municiple infrastructure aren't included in their financing plan.

To say nothing of the fact that if you remove the fieldhouse then what little public good was included in the original proposal is now gone completely.

It halves the cost to the Flames. By his proposal, the City is still kicking in the 200 M plus 250 in CRL?

[Joborule]

If it comes down to the arena itself, I don't think there's much point in the city putting money down into the West Village at the moment since it's an arena project that only really benefits the CSEC alone. Sure, it could still kickstart West Village development, and the contamination has to be cleaned up - so the sooner, the better - but would probably be better economically for the city and the CSEC to build the arena in the area north of the Saddledome.

Worry about West Village and associated costs once East Village is just about to wrap up. I think it the Fieldhouse/Stadium component has to be part of this since it takes up a large amount of space, which the West Village offers.

[Biyaaaah]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Here's what I'd like to know. Forgetting the debate over whether this is being handled well by the Flames or not, for arguments sake, lets just assume that everything the people so upset in here are saying is true. Flames have made no progress, announced it years ago, going to be a long grind, etc.......

Even if all of that were true, what is it about that fact that has got those in here who as so offended and upset by this in their current state of mind? What is driving that passion about the break ground and ribbon cutting on a new rink, and what has got them so assured that because of the above timelines that KK is doing a terrible job?

Isn't it actually true, that the Flames have as long as they believe they have to make this happen? Aren't the only ones who actually have an urgency at this point to get this done is the Flames, and if they feel like they have 2 years, 5 years, 10 years to complete this thing, then they do? It's not like the building is hurting them on ticket sales yet. So only they know just how much money they are losing out on increased box revenues, increased concessions and increased concerts are costing them. And if they are comfortable with that knowledge, what is it that has some fans so riled up that this must happen now, and we are so behind etc...?

To me, it must be one of the following:
- People litterally just can't contain themselves and once something is put on their radar, then need instant gratification and know all the details.
- They are sad that Edmonton is getting a new rink, and somehow see this as Edmonton one upping us and for some reason that personally offends them.
- Do you currently hate your experience at the Dome that much that you are thinking of not coming to games anymore?
- Your favourite band keeps missing tour dates in Calgary?
- Are you actually worried we might never get an arena and the Flames will play in the Dome forever
- Are you actually worried we might never get an arena and the Flames will leave town.

To me, the Flames have as much time as they think they have from a financial perspective, and if they aren't in a rush, why would we be? There has been no "we need a new rink or we are moving talk". So why get so fired up? Don't get me wrong, I'll be excited to go to a new rink and see the games when that time comes, but right now, I'm also still excited to head to the Dome and watch the Flames, so I just don't get the urgency some have on here.

None of the above bullets upset me. I think the dome is a great venue for Hockey. I love the location, are we missing a few modern amenities? Sure. Does it really affect my experiance? No. Over the years we've relocated to the most ideal spot for our needs and the price point is great. I'm really in no rush to see my annual cost go up significantly. I actually prefer my experience at the dome compared to newer venues I've been to. Home sweet home? Maybe.

My issue is the proposed idea is absolutely horrible when you look at logistics and cost. Owners get a free football stadium paid for by us. There's reletively no parking in and around the site and the cost of infrastructure upgrades to facilitate such large crowds is astronomical. The flames have buttered up the proposal and left out huge aspects of the cost to come up with a completely unrealistic cost estimate. In the end we'll be looking at 1 billion in public dollars easily. Owners want public land and public $, who cares if they don't like working with the stampede board, figure it out. Relieve KK and find someone who can make it work on the stampede grounds where all these extra cost and issues don't exist. Big 4 is an old run down building that serves little purpose. Owners kick in 200mill, ticket tax of 200mill and we're not looking at a huge public cost to get a new arena. The owners want the west village cause they get their hands on a huge sum of public money and they'll probably make a ton of cash on the development side of the west village. Seems like a really bad deal for Calgary. Unnecessary and wasteful use of public funds in my opinion. Owners just don't have the appetite to pony up cash for the new arena and then again for a new stadium with the university. Fire King and find someone that can show us a plan that doesn't require the city to fork out a billion dollars. After all this time I think it was a stupid ask by KK and I'm glad no one at the City is taking it seriously. I stopped taking his noise seriously years ago.

At the end of the day I'm happy with the dome and if we're here for another 15 years cool beans. If they want to stand firm on the proposal we've seen I sure hope we don't break ground on it for at least 10-12 years. Tie in with a bid for the 2030 winter olympics so we get some federal $$.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

A lot of people on here seem to hate two things the most: cost to taxpayers and location/lack of parking. What if they ditch the fieldhouse/stadium and turn that into parking and just build an arena. I wonder if people would be more on board with that? Original cost is split in half and Flames pitch in same amount as they're proposing now. Of course the Stamps are screwed but does anyone really care? I do, but I get the sense that most people don't.

Every amateur and high performance athlete that was counting on a Fieldhouse finally being built is also screwed with this idea.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Every amateur and high performance athlete that was counting on a Fieldhouse finally being built is also screwed with this idea.

Can someone ELI5 (Explain like I'm Five) more about the fieldhouse? What kind of athletes does it support?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Can someone ELI5 (Explain like I'm Five) more about the fieldhouse? What kind of athletes does it support?

http://www.calgaryfieldhouse.ca/


It's basically a large gym with an artificial turf field and a full running track.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Can someone ELI5 (Explain like I'm Five) more about the fieldhouse? What kind of athletes does it support?

It's designed to be a centralized training hub accessible to athletes and the general public.

There is a full running track and field for athletics events; basketball/volleyball/badminton courts, convertible gymnasiums, and weight/training rooms.

Calgary doesn't have a dedicated place like this to house all of these sports yet. Current, midhmashed fascilities are inadequate. And, especially for track and field athletes, they'll have the benefit of finally being able to train year round without having to go to the southern US at deep cost.

So it's about giving people a place to train without having to leave or give up.

[Magnum PEI]

Ken King was just on AM770 taking questions. Only caught the last two. He said their would be a unique feature that has never been done before, but wouldnt say what it was. Also said the field house roof would be translucent.