any of y'all into working out?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Mark Rippentoe is a smart man for strength training, but he's an idiot when it comes to nutrition. His advice (he advises newbies to eat 6,000 calories a day), is just terrible.

http://scoobysworkshop.com/starting-...mark-rippetoe/

Info for eating;
http://scoobysworkshop.com/bodybuild...n-made-simple/
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...p?t=1563801833

Educate yourself before proceeding with a diet plan. Don't listen to bro-science. His caloric recommendations are terrible.

He doesn't advise all people to go to 6000 calories. He advises between 3500 and 6000. He also advises some pretty calorically demanding exercises to along with that.

I also don't know how you can question his nutrition advice, when nutrition is a key component to proper strength gains. If people are consistently gaining strength following his advice, he must be doing something right.

From my personal experience. I tried all the whey supplements. I was taking whey in the days and casein at night. I tried all the chicken/rice diets. I tried carb free diets, carb loading diets, etc...

What eventually worked was just eating an extra meal a day. I starting eating meals at 9, 12, 6, and 10. I'm 5'7'', and it took me about a 3500 calorie/day diet to eventually start gaining weight. I gained a little under a pound of body weight a week for half a year. About half of that was muscle.

I'm not saying everyone should do that. But if you're having trouble gaining weight....you need to eat more food.

[burnin_vernon]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Anyway, for me, I have never been able to cut calories down to a deficit level, shed fat and weight, yet gain strength. By the same token, I am not sure I have been in a maintenance zone with no relative weight change, yet gain strength. I think the old adage after all is lean and weak or puffy and strong- I suppose this doesn't always have to be the case, but it certainly is for me. This isn't just a byproduct of the number of calories I am taking in, although certainly a big factor, but also a matter of weight loss being a loss of muscle and fat, with weight gain being an addition of those two (catabolic vs anabolic state). Certainly there are methods and supplements that maximizes one and minimizes the other, but for me strength will always increase or decrease relative to weight gain and weight loss. It is highly debatable how much you can manipulate the ratio of muscle loss:fat loss and conversely muscle gain:fat gain, but I believe, from experience, that high protein is key to both, with carbs being the main thing I manipulate when bulking or cutting.

Hope that isn't a bunch of blah blah blah... just what I have found, the summary being that strength has always been a correlation of my weight- directly or indirectly.

What amount of strength difference/muscle loss are we talking about here?

What does a guy like GSP (whom I consider the pinnacle of what I want to achieve) do? He is clearly very strong, yet very lean. Is that just a matter of bulking, then cutting?

My goal each week is to lift 2.5-5 lbs more than the previous week. It keeps me motivated and gives me something to strive for. However, I need to drop probably 20/25 lbs. Am I fighting a see-saw battle? Am I just eating more to lift more? If I deadlift 300 pounds six times, and then focus on eating less to shed fat, what happens to those numbers?

Bah, it's so confusing.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by burnin_vernon

What amount of strength difference/muscle loss are we talking about here?

What does a guy like GSP (whom I consider the pinnacle of what I want to achieve) do? He is clearly very strong, yet very lean. Is that just a matter of bulking, then cutting?

My goal each week is to lift 2.5-5 lbs more than the previous week. It keeps me motivated and gives me something to strive for. However, I need to drop probably 20/25 lbs. Am I fighting a see-saw battle? Am I just eating more to lift more? If I deadlift 300 pounds six times, and then focus on eating less to shed fat, what happens to those numbers?

Bah, it's so confusing.

If you're fat, you can lose fat while gaining strength.

GSP is most likely not natural. His abdomen does not look at all like someone who is chemical free.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by blankall

He doesn't advise all people to go to 6000 calories. He advises between 3500 and 6000. He also advises some pretty calorically demanding exercises to along with that.

I also don't know how you can question his nutrition advice, when nutrition is a key component to proper strength gains. If people are consistently gaining strength following his advice, he must be doing something right.

From my personal experience. I tried all the whey supplements. I was taking whey in the days and casein at night. I tried all the chicken/rice diets. I tried carb free diets, carb loading diets, etc...

What eventually worked was just eating an extra meal a day. I starting eating meals at 9, 12, 6, and 10. I'm 5'7'', and it took me about a 3500 calorie/day diet to eventually start gaining weight. I gained a little under a pound of body weight a week for half a year. About half of that was muscle.

I'm not saying everyone should do that. But if you're having trouble gaining weight....you need to eat more food.

The intention is fine, blankall.

The trouble is, from what I've seen, there are a host of high-ups in the bodybuilding/strength world that encourage new lifters to gain significant weight/fat in order to build muscle like it's a) the only way to do it and b) it actually works.

There is, again from what I've seen, little/no scientific backing for this and as far as I'm concerned leads to health problems and weight issues in a population that's generally just trying to be fit and strong.

Opinions are great, but stating things like this like they're fact are, frankly, dangerous.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

The intention is fine, blankall.

The trouble is, from what I've seen, there are a host of high-ups in the bodybuilding/strength world that encourage new lifters to gain significant weight/fat in order to build muscle like it's a) the only way to do it and b) it actually works.

There is, again from what I've seen, little/no scientific backing for this and as far as I'm concerned leads to health problems and weight issues in a population that's generally just trying to be fit and strong.

Opinions are great, but stating things like this like they're fact are, frankly, dangerous.

Exactly where I'm coming from.

Blankall says that he gained roughly a pound a week for a year, half of that muscle.

If a properly calculated diet was used, the lean body mass added would have likely been the same, without the ~26 extra pounds of fat that were also added in the process.

Rippetoe is a strength coach, and does not care about your aesthetics as part of his program.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Exactly where I'm coming from.

Blankall says that he gained roughly a pound a week for a year, half of that muscle.

If a properly calculated diet was used, the lean body mass added would have likely been the same, without the ~26 extra pounds of fat that were also added in the process.

Rippetoe is a strength coach, and does not care about your aesthetics as part of his program.

Not a chance. If you think after 7 years of working out, your going to gain 10+lbs of lean mass in half a year, without any fat gain...well you haven't worked out properly for 7 years. Either that or your gains simply aren't as lean as you claim.

You're math is also way off. It was about 15 pounds of fat, which was easily lost over the next couple month.

To clarify, I was at no point advising people to become obese. My initial advice of 4000+ calories, was in the context of a hard gainer who was 6'3''. For someone who is already obese, obviously you aren't going to be bulking. In the scenario where you are 20+% bf to begin with, it is totally possible to lean down and gain muscle at the same time. It's when you get to the ~15% range, when it becomes extremely difficult and inefficient.

From my own experience, which is about 17 years of weightlifting now, nothing beats a properly done bulk. I wasted years with "clean eating" and supplements. You always end up in the same situation. Gains are hard to come by and even harder to maintain. So any breaks (travelling, injuries, moving, new jobs, etc..) result in you losing the gains. The gains aren't even that great to begin with. You essentially end up looking like a less successful version of a personal trainer.

The fact of the matter is, when you are in a vast calorie surplus you're body functions in an anabolic way that it does not when you are calorie restricted.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

So:

I'm 6'0, 165lbs here and I've definitely hit a rut. I used to be fairly obese at 200lbs in my younger days and then lost an insane amount due to health issues and was down to 140 about 1.5 years ago. Up until 1.5 years ago I only did cardio and never hit the gym for any meaningful weight lifting, so getting up to 165 has been a lot of work for me (of course not all of it is lean muscle).

And I think my eating regimen is a much bigger factor than my working out regimen (but likely a combination of both as my workout regimen may be a bit stale with diminishing returns at this point...).

I lift weights 4-5 times a week and two days of floor hockey (roughly 1.5 hours a lifting workout and 40-60 minutes of hockey), do a circuit of compound exercises and attempting to increase my weights as frequently as possible (but typically once every two weeks to 4).

Workout includes, 3 sets of every exercises and 8-15 reps depending on the exercise.

Shoulder shrugs, floor presses, standing bicep curls, seated bicep curls, standing hammer curls, tricep extensions, lawn mowers, weighted sit-up. Followed by 15 min of core stretches/exercises. I've tried to target my arms a lot more as this is definitely the area where size/mass is not noticeable and my chest has gotten the largest size/mass and I'm having great difficulty adding to my arms.

I have a fitbit so I track how many calories I'm eating and burning, typically it's 3000 cals in and out.

I'm reluctant to add 'weight' and calories since I'm trying to get leaner but it's frustrating since doesn't seem to be happening and I'm not wanting to go into a deficit since I'm not wanting to lose my gains. So I'm just in this lull period, not sure what to do eating wise.

I aim for 150-200g of protein a day, I'm a vegetarian so a large portion of that is through lactose-free milk and a protein bar a day and then soy-based veggie products for the remainder.

Any tips, help or advice to help...would love to get leaner, would love to maximize my gains (notably on my arms)...so kind of a sporadic post apologies in advance for that.

[CrunchBite]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

So:

I'm 6'0, 165lbs here and I've definitely hit a rut. I used to be fairly obese at 200lbs in my younger days and then lost an insane amount due to health issues and was down to 140 about 1.5 years ago. Up until 1.5 years ago I only did cardio and never hit the gym for any meaningful weight lifting, so getting up to 165 has been a lot of work for me (of course not all of it is lean muscle).

And I think my eating regimen is a much bigger factor than my working out regimen (but likely a combination of both as my workout regimen may be a bit stale with diminishing returns at this point...).

I lift weights 4-5 times a week and two days of floor hockey (roughly 1.5 hours a lifting workout and 40-60 minutes of hockey), do a circuit of compound exercises and attempting to increase my weights as frequently as possible (but typically once every two weeks to 4).

Workout includes, 3 sets of every exercises and 8-15 reps depending on the exercise.

Shoulder shrugs, floor presses, standing bicep curls, seated bicep curls, standing hammer curls, tricep extensions, lawn mowers, weighted sit-up. Followed by 15 min of core stretches/exercises. I've tried to target my arms a lot more as this is definitely the area where size/mass is not noticeable and my chest has gotten the largest size/mass and I'm having great difficulty adding to my arms.

I have a fitbit so I track how many calories I'm eating and burning, typically it's 3000 cals in and out.

I'm reluctant to add 'weight' and calories since I'm trying to get leaner but it's frustrating since doesn't seem to be happening and I'm not wanting to go into a deficit since I'm not wanting to lose my gains. So I'm just in this lull period, not sure what to do eating wise.

I aim for 150-200g of protein a day, I'm a vegetarian so a large portion of that is through lactose-free milk and a protein bar a day and then soy-based veggie products for the remainder.

Any tips, help or advice to help...would love to get leaner, would love to maximize my gains (notably on my arms)...so kind of a sporadic post apologies in advance for that.

I'm not seeing any legs in there?

There's your problem.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

So:

I'm 6'0, 165lbs here and I've definitely hit a rut. I used to be fairly obese at 200lbs in my younger days and then lost an insane amount due to health issues and was down to 140 about 1.5 years ago. Up until 1.5 years ago I only did cardio and never hit the gym for any meaningful weight lifting, so getting up to 165 has been a lot of work for me (of course not all of it is lean muscle).

And I think my eating regimen is a much bigger factor than my working out regimen (but likely a combination of both as my workout regimen may be a bit stale with diminishing returns at this point...).

I lift weights 4-5 times a week and two days of floor hockey (roughly 1.5 hours a lifting workout and 40-60 minutes of hockey), do a circuit of compound exercises and attempting to increase my weights as frequently as possible (but typically once every two weeks to 4).

Workout includes, 3 sets of every exercises and 8-15 reps depending on the exercise.

Shoulder shrugs, floor presses, standing bicep curls, seated bicep curls, standing hammer curls, tricep extensions, lawn mowers, weighted sit-up. Followed by 15 min of core stretches/exercises. I've tried to target my arms a lot more as this is definitely the area where size/mass is not noticeable and my chest has gotten the largest size/mass and I'm having great difficulty adding to my arms.

I have a fitbit so I track how many calories I'm eating and burning, typically it's 3000 cals in and out.

I'm reluctant to add 'weight' and calories since I'm trying to get leaner but it's frustrating since doesn't seem to be happening and I'm not wanting to go into a deficit since I'm not wanting to lose my gains. So I'm just in this lull period, not sure what to do eating wise.

I aim for 150-200g of protein a day, I'm a vegetarian so a large portion of that is through lactose-free milk and a protein bar a day and then soy-based veggie products for the remainder.

Any tips, help or advice to help...would love to get leaner, would love to maximize my gains (notably on my arms)...so kind of a sporadic post apologies in advance for that.

At 6' and 165lbs I would definitely not be trying to get leaner.

You need more compound workouts in your routine. These should be the focus of every day in the gym. They don't target the arms, but will increase your overall muscle development. Then you can throw exercises that target your arms (IE isolation exercises) on top.

By compound workouts, I mean workouts that target large parts of your body: squats, deadlifts, bench press, military press, rows, etc...

Your current routine is not going to get you anywhere. Especially if you have naturally long muscles, which is generally true of people your height and weight.

Here's a good split:

Day 1: Leg/shoulder: Squats or deadlifts, military press, shrugs, donkey kicks, Lateral raise, etc..

Day 2: Back/triceps: Rows, tricep extensions, chin ups, reverse flys, skull crushers, etc...

Day 3: Chest/bicep: Bench press, bicep curls, pec flys, hammer curls, incline press, wrist curls, etc..

The idea is to get one big compound workout on a major muscle group in a day, and then fill the rest of your routine with 5-7 smaller more isolation area workouts. Get proper instruction on lifts like squats and deadlifts.

I'd also say a lot of your "core" work might be a waste of time. The best way to build a strong core is heavy squats or deadlifts. Once again, get proper instruction, and don't go too heavy too early.

Others in here are going to disagree with me, but I think you should bulk up to 180lbs. If you do that with proper compound workouts, you should notice large increases in size and strength.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Thanks for the tips, and I know the workout I listed above helped me pretty well get some gains the first year of me working out but it's definitely time for a change!

And the reason I've been off put recently is yes the # I have isn't large but I'm always self conscious about gaining fat which I know is something I have to get used to. Just hate having any sort of belly which is why I constantly struggle between putting on weight and then wanting to cut because I suddenly have some belly fat.

Any nutrition tips? Of course bulking up to 180lbs is something to consider, hmm.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Thanks for the tips, and I know the workout I listed above helped me pretty well get some gains the first year of me working out but it's definitely time for a change!

And the reason I've been off put recently is yes the # I have isn't large but I'm always self conscious about gaining fat which I know is something I have to get used to. Just hate having any sort of belly which is why I constantly struggle between putting on weight and then wanting to cut because I suddenly have some belly fat.

Any nutrition tips? Of course bulking up to 180lbs is something to consider, hmm.

Wouldn't consider bulking until your workout is on point.

As far as nutrition, that will be a challenge on a vegetarian diet. I'm assuming you don't eat fish?

Also, I'd be wary of too much soy in your diet. Soy contain isoflavones, which can lead to increased estrogen. A little is fine. However, there's a reason they recommend high levels of soy to treat menopause. It could account for some of your unwanted fat.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by blankall

Wouldn't consider bulking until your workout is on point.

As far as nutrition, that will be a challenge on a vegetarian diet. I'm assuming you don't eat fish?

Also, I'd be wary of too much soy in your diet. Soy contain isoflavones, which can lead to increased estrogen. A little is fine. However, there's a reason they recommend high levels of soy to treat menopause. It could account for some of your unwanted fat.

And if you believe Jeremy Piven, causes gyno, if consumed in large amounts.

[Drak]

I've been lacking energy lately in my workouts. I've been keeping calories up etc. but for some reason I don't have a lot of energy. I could be overdoing it. Regardless, is there an energy source or drink anyone recommends whilst hitting the weights? I notice some guys at the gym drink coloured fluids which I assume is some sort of energy boost.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Drak

I've been lacking energy lately in my workouts. I've been keeping calories up etc. but for some reason I don't have a lot of energy. I could be overdoing it. Regardless, is there an energy source or drink anyone recommends whilst hitting the weights? I notice some guys at the gym drink coloured fluids which I assume is some sort of energy boost.

I'd guess the coloured drinks are more likely to be something with electrolytes in them or something like creatine but can't really say that with much confidence.


I'm looking for two new workouts.

Usually do chest / back one day
Shoulders / Arms another day
and legs on a third day

Would like to keep the days the same but need new workouts for the first two.

Chest and back day usually consists of:

Flat bench / Pull ups
Incline dumbbell / chin ups
Decline bench / dumbbell row
pushups / pullovers

They are supersets as I'm trying to get out of the gym in 40. Usually doing between 12-8 reps on each exercise, starting in the upper range and dropping as I tire.

[Pontine]

The colored drink I consume during my workouts are BCAAs, which are relatively cheap and it's better than drinking plain water.

I take pre-workout about 30 minutes before the gym to provide the energy I need to get through my workouts.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Pontine

The colored drink I consume during my workouts are BCAAs, which are relatively cheap and it's better than drinking plain water.

I take pre-workout about 30 minutes before the gym to provide the energy I need to get through my workouts.

Thanks. I'll give that stuff a try. Just ordered some from amazon.

[Slava]

I tried the pre-workout and I just can't handle it. There is so much caffeine in those that I can never sleep that night. I work out hard, and the energy shot is nice at that point, but then later that night I find I wake up constantly.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Slava

I tried the pre-workout and I just can't handle it. There is so much caffeine in those that I can never sleep that night. I work out hard, and the energy shot is nice at that point, but then later that night I find I wake up constantly.

There's no caffeine on the label of the stuff I ordered.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Drak

There's no caffeine on the label of the stuff I ordered.

yeah and I guess it could vary a lot. I liked the idea of it, and frankly it tasted so good! I just found that come bedtime and the middle of the night I was wide awake and it was brtual. I tried it a bunch of times and it was unfortunately consistent, so I had to stop it. Too bad because I did feel great in the gym. Hopefully its a better experience for you though!

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Slava

yeah and I guess it could vary a lot. I liked the idea of it, and frankly it tasted so good! I just found that come bedtime and the middle of the night I was wide awake and it was brtual. I tried it a bunch of times and it was unfortunately consistent, so I had to stop it. Too bad because I did feel great in the gym. Hopefully its a better experience for you though!

No sleep sucks. I was working out in the evening and was experiencing that sans caffeine. Too much stuff running around and adrenalizing my body I assumed.

Here's the label of the stuff I bought
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00J...ilpage_o00_s00