[PGT] Flames lose 4-3. Questionable Team Defense

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Well my team got a new goalie the year before last and he's much much better.
Our team barely made playoffs, it was down to the last game.
Then last year we lost our best center and but we finished the regular season 2nd overall.

Having a good goalie completely changed the entire complex of our team.
Not only did the goals against go down, the goals for went way up, for obvious reasons.

The same thing happened with my hometown Junior team when my parents billeted a player. They had a horrible start and were getting the same type of goaltending the Flames are. He would come home from road trips completely deflated and I would ask him if the goaltending was really as bad as it sounded on the radio and all he would do is sigh and say "yep".

They ended up bringing in a goalie from Quebec and he told us it completely changed the team's mentality. The forwards weren't scared to take more chances anymore and the defense wasn't paranoid about making mistakes because they knew they could count on him to not let in weak goals. They ended up turning the season around and won the championship.

They were already a top team so it's not the same situation as the Flames but that just shows the impact steady goaltending can have on a team.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The Flames received some pretty strong goaltending in stretches, particularly at the start of the year.

This year, the goalies have cost them a few games and have yet to "win" them a game.
.

Agreed but last year, amongst goalies who played in 25 or more games Hiller was around 18/19 and Ramo 30/31st in terms of GAA and SVP.
So the goaltending they received ranged from average at best, to bad.

This yeare is worse for sure, but that doesn't mean last year was good by any stretch.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Travis i usually agree with you but i can't tonight. A couple lucky posts kept the game from being 6-3. At a certain point his GAA starts to talk for itself. And more importantly, its the backbreaker goal that is costly. Hell, Luongo let in 3 himself, but it was the softie from Jagr that cost us, and thats the difference. He has to have that if we're gonna be a playoff team. Even more so now that were in a hole.

O trust me, I am not saying that Ramo's play is excuseable. There is 0 chance this is a playoff team with a performance like tonight however I felt that tonight's game was a very winnable one despite the way Ramo played.

I believe you can still win a game with poor goaltending and great D or poor d and great goaltending. Lets face it, this team is designed with what should be great D.

The first goal should have been a easy catch and whistle but we lack great goaltending. Watch the replay and watch Brodie get undressed inside out which allows for the shot

The second goal is one where Mony cleanly loses the draw,the flames are all standing still and a shot comes in from the point through 3 bodies, Ramo makes the first save but nobody picks up the rebound.

The third goal goes in on any goalie however I would expect an elite D man like Brodie to not allow Ekblad to walk in for the easiest one timer of his season.

The fourth goal is a gift from Brodie behind the net which is thrown right up the middle. Some say it was an easy save, Hrudey calls it a very difficult save.

Reading the above looks as if I am singling Brodie out and thats not the case. He was the last piece to collapse in plays that had multiple players not make the right play but I just do not understand why some expect Ramo to be Price or Luongo...he is not and never will be and we have known this since he has been on the flames. He is a serviceable goalie who can get hot and we rely on a great D core.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Inferno

The same thing happened with my hometown Junior team when my parents billeted a player. They had a horrible start and were getting the same type of goaltending the Flames are. He would come home from road trips completely deflated and I would ask him if the goaltending was really as bad as it sounded on the radio and all he would do is sigh and say "yep".

They ended up bringing in a goalie from Quebec and he told us it completely changed the team's mentality. The forwards weren't scared to take more chances anymore and the defense wasn't paranoid about making mistakes because they knew they could count on him to not let in weak goals. They ended up turning the season around and won the championship.

They were already a top team so it's not the same situation as the Flames but that just shows the impact steady goaltending can have on a team.

Like the saying goes:

Goaltending is 70% of hockey, unless you don't have it - then it's 100%

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Agreed but last year, amongst goalies who played in 25 or more games Hiller was around 18/19 and Ramo 30/31st in terms of GAA and SVP.
So the goaltending they received ranged from average at best, to bad.

This yeare is worse for sure, but that doesn't mean last year was good by any stretch.

Agreed. But in truth the Flames were an average team last year, 16th overall. They basically got the goaltending consistent with that, maybe slightly worse. I do think some strong play from Hiller at the start of last year was important to the season overall.

Now we are getting the goaltending you'd expect for one of the worst teams in the league.

[blender]

Something does have to give.
It is not my call to make as I'm just a fan, but I am ready for anything (trade for goalie, fire coach, roster trade, other, nothing?)

Nevertheless, at the NHL level the margins are razor thin for the best of teams, playing loose and at their best, so I am trying to be philosophical and take it for what it is. Look at Columbus. They were easily one of the best hockey teams in the world at the end of last season and the wheels fell off immediately to start this season. Very similar with Calgary, yet I don't believe that the future of the Flames is anything but positive.
At least Torterella is taken...

What was the context of Savard being let go in Chicago? Were the Hawks on a skid? Just curious.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

It's surprising how poorly the defensive effort has been this year. Even more surprising is that despite the poor play on the back end, Hartley seems much more open to juggling the forwards than the defensemen. I don't think it would hurt to have Smid and another dman (try Nakladal?) regularly sub in for the poorest performer. It can't get any worse. And it may even help in the sense that it does seem that the defenders right now are really, really worried at all times about the goalie giving up a softie. They need a defender or two with a fresh outlook to slot into games and help break the monotony.

The other thing I've noticed is that the box the Flames form around the goalie is much more compressed this year. I know that our strategy is to let teams do their passing back and forth on the outside, but once they try to break in the middle then the sticks and shot blocks come into play. But it seem this year the 5 players on the ice are collapsing much closer to the goalie, giving teams far too much room to maneuver in the Flames zone. So many times this year the Flames have given up a goal with 4 Flaming Cs being within a meter of Ramo; they're just panicked and out of sorts. I hope Hartley / Treliving realize that part of that is probably an overcompensation for the fact that the skaters have little confidence in the goalie.

I really think the forward play has been fine this year. Not amazing, but fine. Hartley needs to be more punitive on the defenders and bring up Nakladal in order to have 2 dmen that can rotate in. And give Ortio a run, just because. Hartley has a preference for Ramo, but right not it's not doing him or the team any favours. He needs to realize and accept that.

All in all, I'm sad to lose to Florida. Yeah it's early in the season and all that... but you gotta get points against Florida.

[Strange Brew]

I don't think this gets turned around until the team starts getting its money's worth from the highly touted, highly paid defense corps.

And some halfway decent goaltending.

[Strange Brew]

[QUOTE=Flames Fan, Ph.D.;5500674...All in all, I'm sad to lose to Florida. Yeah it's early in the season and all that... but you gotta get points against Florida.[/QUOTE]

Sums up my feelings. There should have been enough desperation, and confidence from last game, to get points tonight. Disappointing.

[Samonadreau]

I will just go ahead and say it - i really want to make the playoffs because thats the whole point of playing 82 games in the reg season and the reason i watch 80(+) of those games and we are blessed with playing in the pacific so we still have a chance, but maybe, just maybe, missing this year wouldnt be the worst thing. Get a chance to reset and realize we have an excellent young core but there is still a lot of work to be done. And get one last highish draft pick out of it.

This is where people will jump in and say "another fan panicking" - but nope not panicking. Just being optimistic if we dont end up having the same magic as last year.

[blender]

That's all you can think. Anything else is panic.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

It's surprising how poorly the defensive effort has been this year. Even more surprising is that despite the poor play on the back end, Hartley seems much more open to juggling the forwards than the defensemen. I don't think it would hurt to have Smid and another dman (try Nakladal?) regularly sub in for the poorest performer. It can't get any worse. And it may even help in the sense that it does seem that the defenders right now are really, really worried at all times about the goalie giving up a softie. They need a defender or two with a fresh outlook to slot into games and help break the monotony.

The other thing I've noticed is that the box the Flames form around the goalie is much more compressed this year. I know that our strategy is to let teams do their passing back and forth on the outside, but once they try to break in the middle then the sticks and shot blocks come into play. But it seem this year the 5 players on the ice are collapsing much closer to the goalie, giving teams far too much room to maneuver in the Flames zone. So many times this year the Flames have given up a goal with 4 Flaming Cs being within a meter of Ramo; they're just panicked and out of sorts. I hope Hartley / Treliving realize that part of that is probably an overcompensation for the fact that the skaters have little confidence in the goalie.

I really think the forward play has been fine this year. Not amazing, but fine. Hartley needs to be more punitive on the defenders and bring up Nakladal in order to have 2 dmen that can rotate in. And give Ortio a run, just because. Hartley has a preference for Ramo, but right not it's not doing him or the team any favours. He needs to realize and accept that.

All in all, I'm sad to lose to Florida. Yeah it's early in the season and all that... but you gotta get points against Florida.

And yes Nakladal really needs a shot sooner than later. Lets see what we have in this guy.

[Da_Chief]

Not that I should defend Ramo but some of the the Ramo haters are also Hiller fanboys, ie dammage, panthers fan etc. so they'll be out in full force. In my opinion none of them are good enough to stick around.

Really missed the boat on Jake Allen.

[868904]

It's just puzzling how bad Giordano and Hamilton have been. The others have really just played to what they are, but these two have been no where close to where they should be.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

And yes Nakladal really needs a shot sooner than later. Lets see what we have in this guy.

Just to be clear, I'm just saying Nakladal because he was the last one they deemed worthy of calling up. I'll be happy with whoever they think is willing to come up here and work to raise the bar.

[vilzeh]

Blah.. and even lost to a Barkov-less Panthers.. Their game has also been a disaster without him..

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Just to be clear, I'm just saying Nakladal because he was the last one they deemed worthy of calling up. I'll be happy with whoever they think is willing to come up here and work to raise the bar.

Hes probably the only one worthy of calling up until Culkin gets back to playing form.

The thing about Nakladal is he has a 1 year contract and theres noe reason not to give him a shot. Hes been by far the best D man in Stockton and will probably just go home after this year to make more money there if he doesnt get his shot. He might be a bust but unless he gets a shot we'll never know.

[The Yen Man]

In hindsight, who would have thought Treliving's biggest mistake so far as Calgary's GM was the re-signing of Ramo and creating this 3 headed goaltending nightmare. All 3 goalies play like crap as a result of this uncertainty, and the team defense has gone down the crapper because they're tentative and can't trust the goaltending.

[polak]

ugh. back to be a one player #### stain on the ice.

[Itse]

Looking at that first goal, there's 4 Flames skaters right there. Sure, Rämö gave a juicy rebound, but to me that's less unforgivable than 4 guys just standing there doing nothing while the Panthers put that rebound to the net.

That goal highlights our problem nicely. The goalies are not helping the skaters, and the skaters are not helping the goalies. Hilarity ensues. Or a league leading 63 goals against.