[News] Jarome Iginla "only" a 105% chance of making HHOF

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Neither of them have any cups. Teams win cups. Toews on the Oilers would not have resulted in the Oilers winning three, or any, cups. Nor do they have any gold medals. Had Toews been born Slovenian, he would have seen as much success in international tournaments as Kopitar.

Your post reveals that your opinions on which players are better appears to be discerned not by hockey playing ability, but by results. Further, it's not even individual results, it's team results (and apparently place of birth). You are so far out of your tree on this topic it's actually laughable.

Please stop digging.

Stop digging? Me? Stop digging?

You plunked Toews on the Oilers, discounted the effect the Conn Smythe winner might have had on the championships his team won and then you turned him into a Slovenian.

Yeah, but I'm the crazy one thats 'out of my tree' and should 'stop digging.'

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I actually did none of those things... I'm not sure how bad your desire to be right about this must be to be able to convince yourself to interpret what I wrote in that way. It's like some sort of case study in self-delusion.

Toews has, several times, been a significant part of a group of 20+ guys who won a two month tournament. The same reasoning goes for the Olympics. Team accomplishments are not player accomplishments. You compare player quality by comparing player ability, by the degree to which they help their team win, not by whether the team in fact wins. This is why goalie win loss record is quite possibly the most meaningless regularly-referenced stat in hockey, and even a goalie has MUCH more of an impact on a team's W/L record than their arguably-best-forward does.

To some extent, the only data we have is counting stats, but that's not really the case anymore given how much we've watched these guys play hockey the past 20 years.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Stop digging? Me? Stop digging?

You plunked Toews on the Oilers, discounted the effect the Conn Smythe winner might have had on the championships his team won and then you turned him into a Slovenian.

Yeah, but I'm the crazy one thats 'out of my tree' and should 'stop digging.'

His username should have been all you needed broseph.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

His username should have been all you needed broseph.

Which one? 19Yzerman19 or his current iteration?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

As mentioned many times, Theodore was left completely off the Hart ballot more than Iginla was that year. Works both ways. Honestly it was really a 2 horse race, both of them were ridiculously good. The difference was one guy made the playoffs in a weaker conference.

Theodore was left off of Hart ballots for good reason - he was nowhere near consensus best GOALIE that season either.

We talk about the vote being tied for the Hart, but the vote was actually tied for the Vezina as well, With Theodore and Roy having the exact same amount of vote points. It's not a surprise that the many voters who thought Theodore wasn't even the best goalie left him out of their top 5 for the Hart.

[V]

Toews didn't only happen to be on a great team at the Olympics, he was easily the best player on the best team at the 2010 Olympics.

If I could start a team with any player in the league, it would be Toews.

And how moon's latest iteration hasn't been banned yet is beyond me.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by V

Toews didn't only happen to be on a great team at the Olympics, he was easily the best player on the best team at the 2010 Olympics.

If I could start a team with any player in the league, it would be Toews.

And how moon's latest iteration hasn't been banned yet is beyond me.

Agreed. Hey, maybe they can get a twofer and nab moon and Yzerman at the same time?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

"He doesn't like what I said! He has points to refute my opinion and strongly disagrees with it! Must be a returning member! Ban the witch!"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

"He doesn't like what I said! He has points to refute my opinion and strongly disagrees with it! Must be a returning member! Ban the witch!"

Do you weigh more than a duck?

[Enoch Root]

The 'team' argument can go either way.

Is Bollig a great player because he was on a team that won the cup?

With all due respect to Bollig, it's probably pretty safe to say that the Hawks would have won the cup with any number of other players in his role.

However, saying Canada won gold is a 'team' accomplishment only, is disingenuous for this argument.

Why has Canada won 3 of the last 4 golds? Because they have clearly the best team.

Why do they have the best team? Because, in a tournament of the very best players, they have more than their share of them.

How does Toews fit into that? He was one of - and in many peoples' opinions, the - best players on the best team.

And not only that, he has proven many times to be among the very best players in the biggest tournaments.

Dismissing his actions as being fortunate that he happens to be a Canadian and a Blackhawk is wrong.

Calling out others for actually thinking his accomplishments have value and calling them laughable is, well, laughable.

[Komskies]

With his 7th goal of the season tonight Jarome is well on his way to another 30 goal campaign.

Go Iggy!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Komskies

With his 7th goal of the season tonight Jarome is well on his way to another 30 goal campaign.

Go Iggy!

Goal #600 will be something special. I'm really happy for him and I hope he just keeps marching up the all time charts

[GirlySports]

Ovechkin is a shoe-in. Best left winger of all time.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by adc

I don't have Ovechkin in my top 10.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Ovechkin is a shoe-in. Best left winger of all time.

Well this esteemed poster doesn't even have Ovechkin in his top 10 players of the current era.

So one of you two is dead wrong. I'm not saying which one, but one of you is.

[adc]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well this esteemed poster doesn't even have Ovechkin in his top 10 players of the current era.

So one of you two is dead wrong. I'm not saying which one, but one of you is.

We could both be right actually.

Gretzky is my top player of all time but isn't in my current top 250 players.

Jagr is potentially a top 10 all time player but not close to top 10 player right now.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well this esteemed poster doesn't even have Ovechkin in his top 10 players of the current era.

So one of you two is dead wrong. I'm not saying which one, but one of you is.

I could be wrong, but I think he didn't have him in his top 5 / top 10 for this year (ie. if you had the choice, who you would want on your team for this year).

Forgetting that it you can't really judge opinions to be right/wrong (doing so is just your opinion, which is equally fallible), it is very possible to hold both of those opinions at the same time (especially considering the historical weakness of LW). In fact, I would say that I probably do.


THN Top 100 players by position (2010 I believe)

1. Bobby Hull
2. Ted Lindsay
3. Frank Mahovlich
4. Dickie Moore
5. Johnny Bucyk
6. Busher Jackson
7. Luc Robitaille
8. Alex Ovechkin
12. Brendan Shanahan

Hard to compare generations, but I would now have Ovi pretty much tied with Hull. I would certainly make the statement that there is no LW better than Ovi (but I'd have no issue putting Hull, Lindsay, Robitaille as roughly equal).

As for top 5/10 today (based on my criteria of players I would want on my team this year; I understand your criteria may differ):

Crosby
Toews
Price
Tavares
Doughty
Weber
Keith
Quick
Lundqvist
Kopitar
Datsyuk (for 1 season, I'd still rather have Dats than Ovi)
Stamkos / Ovi / Kane (I'd take any of these guys equally)


So there, a well reasoned post where post statements are true.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by adc

We could both be right actually.

Gretzky is my top player of all time but isn't in my current top 250 players.

Jagr is potentially a top 10 all time player but not close to top 10 player right now.

What's right now? Like today!?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

As for top 5/10 today (based on my criteria of players I would want on my team this year; I understand your criteria may differ):

Crosby
Toews
Price
Tavares
Doughty
Weber
Keith
Quick
Lundqvist
Kopitar
Datsyuk (for 1 season, I'd still rather have Dats than Ovi)
Stamkos / Ovi / Kane (I'd take any of these guys equally)


So there, a well reasoned post where post statements are true.

Don't disagree but you need wingers.

You starting lineup would have to be

Price
Keith Doughty
Ovechkin Crosby Kane

[adc]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

What's right now? Like today!?

This season

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by adc

This season

I'd be interested in your justification as based on your top 5 "this season" I already see a couple players who aren't even as good as Ovechkin "this season."