09-08-2006, 04:00 AM
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#21
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmytheT
Hasn't this party learned from the fall of communism around the world (I know they are a democratic socialist party); haven't they learned from New Zealand, Norway or Sweden?
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Can you explain to me exactly how those countries are now hell on earth?
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09-08-2006, 08:29 AM
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#22
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Richmond, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate
Can you explain to me exactly how those countries are now hell on earth?
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I would say they are, in fact, the opposite.
Norway, Sweden and to a lesser extent New Zealand are three of the best countries in the world.
__________________
"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan
Freedom consonant with responsibility.
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09-10-2006, 08:05 PM
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#23
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Earth to Layton, the 50's wants thier ideas back.
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At the end of the convention, the principle planks they came out with were: - Provide more affordable housing to working Canadians and help young people buy their first homes.
- Increase access to education and training for young Canadians.
- Take better care of the elderly.
- Protect the environment through tough auto emissions standards and clamping down on the emissions of large-scale industrial polluters.
I completely agree with you. These ideas have no business being part of a modern party platform. Who the f%*# needs affordable housing?!?! Access to education... what a joke. What we REALLY need is a party that will REDUCE funding for affordable housing, stop funding universities, remove the old age pension program, gut Environment Canada and spend the money on the military to stop the thread of invasion.
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09-10-2006, 09:00 PM
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#24
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Had an idea!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate
the money on the military to stop the thread of invasion.
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I pretty sure no 'thread' will ever invade anything. I know it was a typo, but that is exactly what I think of your post.
You can't gut the citizens of this great country, of their hard earned money, just to support your 'cause.'
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09-10-2006, 10:39 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I pretty sure no 'thread' will ever invade anything. I know it was a typo, but that is exactly what I think of your post.
You can't gut the citizens of this great country, of their hard earned money, just to support your 'cause.'
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Nobody wants to gut the citizens. I take it then you are against affordable housing and education, taking care of the elderly and protecting the environment. When you start paying income tax and these benefits start coming out of your pocket and someday you actually knowingly benefit from government programs you might start thinking before spouting off your garbage.
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09-10-2006, 10:40 PM
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#26
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Richmond, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I pretty sure no 'thread' will ever invade anything.
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I pretty sure you no make fun of people engrish when you cna't speek so good yourslef.
__________________
"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan
Freedom consonant with responsibility.
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09-10-2006, 10:46 PM
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#27
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Had an idea!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Nobody wants to gut the citizens. I take it then you are against affordable housing and education, taking care of the elderly and protecting the environment. When you start paying income tax and these benefits start coming out of your pocket and someday you actually knowingly benefit from government programs you might start thinking before spouting off your garbage.
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I guess my opinion is referred to as garbage when you don't agree with it. Strange how CP turns into a ****ing match that way.
Either way, I am for affordable housing, education, and protecting the enviroment. But I sure as hell don't think we should gut the military to support those programs. Nor do I think we should increase taxes to do it either. The NDP makes it sound like Canada does 'nothing' to protect our senior citizens, or that the conservatives don't want to protect the enviroment because they turned away from the crap program called Kyoto.
Throwing money at things like that doesn't fix the problems. Our Health Care has shown that.
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09-10-2006, 10:49 PM
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#28
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Had an idea!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
I pretty sure you no make fun of people engrish when you cna't speek so good yourslef.
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Probably.
I never made fun of the way someone speaks English...
I understood that it was a typo....
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09-10-2006, 11:04 PM
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#29
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I guess my opinion is referred to as garbage when you don't agree with it. Strange how CP turns into a ****ing match that way.
Either way, I am for affordable housing, education, and protecting the enviroment. But I sure as hell don't think we should gut the military to support those programs. Nor do I think we should increase taxes to do it either. The NDP makes it sound like Canada does 'nothing' to protect our senior citizens, or that the conservatives don't want to protect the enviroment because they turned away from the crap program called Kyoto.
Throwing money at things like that doesn't fix the problems. Our Health Care has shown that.
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Where does it say that the NDP want to gut the military or increase taxes? I wouldn't be happy with cutting our military. We need it to combat American threats to our northern territories.
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09-10-2006, 11:20 PM
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#30
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Either way, I am for affordable housing, education, and protecting the enviroment. But I sure as hell don't think we should gut the military to support those programs. Nor do I think we should increase taxes to do it either. The NDP makes it sound like Canada does 'nothing' to protect our senior citizens, or that the conservatives don't want to protect the enviroment because they turned away from the crap program called Kyoto.
Throwing money at things like that doesn't fix the problems. Our Health Care has shown that.
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If you think that the Conservatives feel the same way about affordable housing, education, seniors and the environment as the NDP does, don't you think that the NDP and the CPC would be the same party? It's obvious that these two parties, at different spots on the spectrum, have different priorities and agendas - none of these topics are on the CPC's agenda.
If you do not agree with NDP policies, nobody is forcing you to vote for them, but to completely discredit them, and not acknowledge the role they play in Canadian politics, is just ignorant. As a fan of democracy, one should support the idea of multiple parties with differing views that appeal to a range of voters, regardless of your political beliefs. To say that no one votes for them is a little naive and probably part of the Albertan culture. There are a number of provinces that hold NDP governments and representation in the legislatures, the Conservatives failed to claim any seats in the major urban centers, and while the NDP only holds 29 seats in the HOC, they obtained 18% of the vote - meaning approximately 1 in 5 people vote for them. Just because these people do not hold the same ideals as you, does that mean they should not have a say?
We have one of the best health care systems in the world. Every year 30 MILLION people in the US go bankrupt due to healthcare bills, and there are 46 MILLION people without any health insurance. People in Canada live longer than in the US and experts believe it is because we have access to health-care whenever we need it here.
http://americanhealthcarereform.org/
Our public health care system defines a large part of what it means to be Canadian and any party that would pull Canada out of medicare would be commiting political suicide.
Last edited by Red Mile Style; 09-10-2006 at 11:39 PM.
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09-10-2006, 11:33 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Azure, I'd never call your ideas garbage just for disagreeing with me, I only call them garbage when they are poorly thought out or not thought out at all. You can do better.
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09-10-2006, 11:43 PM
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#32
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Had an idea!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Where does it say that the NDP want to gut the military or increase taxes? I wouldn't be happy with cutting our military. We need it to combat American threats to our northern territories.
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Seeing that the NDP is further left then the liberal party, and almost socialist, its pretty obvious that they would increase taxes.
Also, the NDP have shown their understanding on Canada's role in the world, by calling for the withdrawl of all troops from Afghanistan.
On their site...they claim that...
Quote:
Commit Canadian troops to overseas operations only under the auspices of international peace and security organizations.
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Just exactly who was involved in the Afghani mission again?
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09-10-2006, 11:47 PM
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#33
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Had an idea!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Mile Style
We have one of the best health care systems in the world.
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But we are not without our glaring problems.
And throwing money at those problems will not solve them. Which was my original point.
Quote:
Every year 30 MILLION people in the US go bankrupt due to health care bills, and there are 46 MILLION people without any health insurance. People in Canada live longer than in the US and experts believe it is because we have access to health-care whenever we need it here.
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You do realize how much money it would cost the US government to have a health care system similar to ours?
And considering that no US politician has shown that he/she will cut all the pork the US spends, I'm pretty sure the deficit and debt will rise substantially if the government provides 'free' health care.
Plus, they are far more right-wing as a country then Canada is, so it wouldn't bode well with many citizens if the government raised taxes in order to pay for health care.
Quote:
Our public health care system defines a large part of what it means to be Canadian and any party that would pull Canada out of medicare would be commiting political suicide.
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I certainly don't suggest that. Personally I support the two-tier plan.
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09-10-2006, 11:57 PM
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#34
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmytheT
Hasn't this party learned from the fall of communism around the world (I know they are a democratic socialist party); haven't they learned from New Zealand, Norway or Sweden?
And why is a party that's been around for over 50 years still called the New Democratic Party.
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And haven't you learned that pure communism has never been achieved? You can not compare the NDP to a communist state (especially New Zealand, Norway or Sweden... wtf?), just as I can not compare the U.S. to a fascist state... although I could, but I won't... at least for the time being.
The NDP is new, compared to the tories and the grits that have been around since before the establishment of Canada.
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09-11-2006, 12:08 AM
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#35
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Seeing that the NDP is further left then the liberal party, and almost socialist, its pretty obvious that they would increase taxes.
Also, the NDP have shown their understanding on Canada's role in the world, by calling for the withdrawl of all troops from Afghanistan.
On their site...they claim that...
Just exactly who was involved in the Afghani mission again?
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Increasing taxes isn't obvious at all. In fact it was the Conservatives with the GST who last increased our taxes and Mulroney is still hated for it today. Even if our taxes are increased, not that I want this, if it is accompanied by increased services, we have chance to vote on what we want. Try to quit repeating dogma without thought and your ideas will go farther.
As for getting out of Afghanistan, I don't agree with it, but it has nothing to do with gutting the military.
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09-11-2006, 02:50 AM
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#36
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
But we are not without our glaring problems.
And throwing money at those problems will not solve them. Which was my original point.
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The fact is, money is not getting invested into healthcare. Health care spending in Alberta dropped by 3.1 percent from 1997 to 2000, when adjusted for population growth and inflation. All the talk of putting money back into public services neglects that Alberta's population is growing. It also ignores inflation, running at over two per cent in Alberta for the last two years. These cuts are to a public health system that is already the most poorly funded in the country.
http://www.ualberta.ca/~parkland/pos..._No1/news.html
Bed Counts: Number of hopsital bed decreases 1986-87
1994-95
Percentage
Change
Newfoundland 3,401
2,753
-19.1
Prince Edward Island 755
513
-32.1
Nova Scotia 5,705
3,722
-34.8
New Brunswick 5,151
3,397
-34.1
Quebec 54,741
38,849
-29.0
Ontario 51,181
37,303
-27.1
Manitoba 6,369
5,527
-13.2
Saskatchewan 7,272
4,675
-35.7
Alberta17,880
8,372
-53.5
British Columbia 19,466
15,527
-20.2
Canada*172,425
120,774
-30.0 *Includes Northwest Territories and Yukon
Source: Statistics Canada Reprinted from the Globe and Mail, 22/04/97
I would like to know where this money, you claim is being thrown at the problem, is coming from? Because it sure isn't coming from the government...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
You do realize how much money it would cost the US government to have a health care system similar to ours?
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And you do realize that it would obviously cost the same per capita, if not less, as it does for Canadians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
And considering that no US politician has shown that he/she will cut all the pork the US spends, I'm pretty sure the deficit and debt will rise substantially if the government provides 'free' health care.
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I'm pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with those private health-care providers lobbying politicians either...
You're making predictions without looking at history or the facts. This first province in Canada that installed medicare was governed by the NDP and balanced the budget. For the past number of years Canada has maintained it's public health care while LOWERING the defecit. If there is a country on this planet that CAN afford public health care, it is the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Plus, they are far more right-wing as a country then Canada is, so it wouldn't bode well with many citizens if the government raised taxes in order to pay for health care.
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Right, and Canada is a much more socially progressive nation so raising taxes to strengthen the military doesn't bode well with many citizens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I certainly don't suggest that. Personally I support the two-tier plan.
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And it's for reasons like this I am glad there is an NDP, so people like you will never gain complete control of this country and everything that is great about it.
Last edited by Red Mile Style; 09-11-2006 at 03:00 AM.
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09-11-2006, 07:23 AM
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#37
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Mile Style
And haven't you learned that pure communism has never been achieved? You can not compare the NDP to a communist state (especially New Zealand, Norway or Sweden... wtf?), just as I can not compare the U.S. to a fascist state... although I could, but I won't... at least for the time being.
The NDP is new, compared to the tories and the grits that have been around since before the establishment of Canada.
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And you know that there is no such thing as 'pure communism' right?
You know that the NDp are socialists, right?
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09-11-2006, 07:33 AM
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#38
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I pretty sure no 'thread' will ever invade anything. I know it was a typo, but that is exactly what I think of your post.
You can't gut the citizens of this great country, of their hard earned money, just to support your 'cause.'
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Considering you're always the one whining about thread degeneration, this was a pretty inflammatory post, what did you expect? You point out a typo, and then say thats what you think about the post? What... that there's a typo in it? Followed up by some vague 'ra-ra Canada' statement?
For someone who has commented ad nauseum about being nice and keeping threads civil, you sure walk differently than you talk. And then you're surprised when people call your posts garbage... a lot of them are, including the above.
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09-11-2006, 07:37 AM
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#39
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehead
Mike Harris still gets raked over the coals for trying to pull Ont. out of the mess Bob Rae threw them into. And he almost made it, until he retired and his party tried to buy the next election.
When will politicians learn that the electorate will accept tight spending when it is required? Ralph proved it here, Mike Harris did in Ont. The silent majority know not to spend beyond thier means, and they recognize and reward governments that understand that principle.
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Great post.
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09-11-2006, 07:57 AM
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#40
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary, AB
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I would consider myself to lean towards the left but any extreme whether to the left or right is too much IMO. That's why I am turned off by the NDP.
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