Bigger Nets

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

At this point I'd be on board with all of the other teams getting a bigger net than the Flames.

Hey! Thats what we can do! Have a whole variety of net sizes and as a goalie gets a higher and higher save percentage he has to play with a bigger and bigger net.

That way we can maintain parity and keep scoring up! Brilliant!

Netgate

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I don'get this line of thinking. What is so wrong with wanting some exciting hockey? And it's just not the amount of goals, but how the goals are scored. How many truly "nice" goals do you see anymore?

How many more "nice" goals (whatever those are) will be scored on very slightly larger nets?

I maintain that an artificial increase in scoring will not make the game any more exciting. Any increase achieved by larger nets is almost certain to be marginal, and will not improve in any way the quality of play, which is what much more directly corresponds to the excitement of the game.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. The current average height for men is around 5'9". And no, the average height of men has not increased by any notable amount in the past 50 years. Yes, people are taller now than they were in the 19th century, but height indexes in the industrial world have levelled off since at least the 1950s.

*EDIT* Without looking at the numbers, I would expect that professional hockey players are a lot bigger today than they were in the 1950s, but this has nothing to do with average height generally. It has more to do with the revolution in sports training and conditioning.

I think you are right re average male - only an inch taller. But the really important one is "average NHL goalie" - I think you have to account for that.

[Igottago]

If you don't find hockey exciting enough already maybe its just not the sport for you. There are sports like Lacrosse and Basketball with lots of scoring. And they aren't for me.

Changing goal size would be more needless and senseless tinkering of the game, which is already out of control.

Will hockey somehow be at its pinnacle when goals are bigger and the entire game is 3 on 3?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I have never understood this concept of increasing the net size because goalies are twice as big as they used to be.

Just restrict goalie equipment to get the same dimensions.

It's just ass backward thinking. Are goalies being hurt by shots? Besides a goalie taking a puck in the neck, have we had any injuries in the last 20 years to goalies from shots?

If no, why on earth is the padding so big?

Some of the trappers used currently are the size of garbage pails.

[VladtheImpaler]

I personally enjoy a 5-4 game more than a 2-1 game. More lead changes are objectively good for entertainment value. I would rather be counting goals than "chances". That's just me however.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I personally enjoy a 5-4 game more than a 2-1 game. More lead changes are objectively good for entertainment value. I would rather be counting goals than "chances". That's just me however.

So you would be thrilled with a 9-8 game?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How many more "nice" goals (whatever those are) will be scored on very slightly larger nets?

I maintain that an artificial increase in scoring will not make the game any more exciting. Any increase achieved by larger nets is almost certain to be marginal, and will not improve in any way the quality of play, which is what much more directly corresponds to the excitement of the game.

Totally agree with you, I think the more goals = more excitement argument is ridiculous. The thing that makes great games is the tension and competitiveness between the two teams in trying to create goals.


I will also add that goals need to be hard to come by to mean something. Two teams trading goals easily takes the thrill out of what a goal is.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Igottago

So you would be thrilled with a 9-8 game?

Sure, just for the freakery of it. It's not like they would be common. I still remember a 9-8 game between the Flames and Flyers c. 1982, so clearly it's a memorable experience. If you increase the size of the net by a few inches each way, it's not like it would suddenly turn into lacrosse.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

I think it was Duhatschek who mentioned someone came up with a goal post design that almost ensured a puck off the post now, would be a puck in the net with the new design. It also was designed so it wouldn't cut the players in half if they ran into it. If something like that exists, I wouldn't mind seeing it.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How many more "nice" goals (whatever those are) will be scored on very slightly larger nets?

I maintain that an artificial increase in scoring will not make the game any more exciting. Any increase achieved by larger nets is almost certain to be marginal, and will not improve in any way the quality of play, which is what much more directly corresponds to the excitement of the game.

This isn't true. One could argue that what we have now is an artificial decrease in goals partially due to unchecked and illegitimate growth in goalie dimensions. I agree with you from the point of view that the 'ideal' solution is a bigger ice surface so that skill players have room to make skill plays. That said, the NHL won't be mandating retrofitting of rinks. So, what are the practical alternatives to improving the game because hockey circa 2015 is pretty boring? I don't get the conclusion that an increase in net size 'is almost certain to be marginal'. Widening the net by 6 inches and raising the bar by 4 would force goalies to remain on their skates more and mostly remove the ability to block the entire bottom of the net just by dropping to their knees. Step in the right direction imo.

[Finger Cookin]

I think a good compromise would be to reduce the size of the goalie equipment some, and to increase the size of the nets some. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think goalies do need more protection now than in the past, as everyone can shoot hard now due to improvements in the stick as well as all around athleticism.

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

I think it was Duhatschek who mentioned someone came up with a goal post design that almost ensured a puck off the post now, would be a puck in the net with the new design. It also was designed so it wouldn't cut the players in half if they ran into it. If something like that exists, I wouldn't mind seeing it.

I remember this too. He described it as a slight bevel that would angle more pucks in.

It'd be interesting to see it in action.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I think a good compromise would be to reduce the size of the goalie equipment some, and to increase the size of the nets some. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think goalies do need more protection now than in the past, as everyone can shoot hard now due to improvements in the stick as well as all around athleticism.

The problem with reducing the size of goalie equipment is enforcement. You think its always measured before every game? Their trapper gloves are only marginally smaller than a lacrosse goalie's net thingy.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Locke

The problem with reducing the size of goalie equipment is enforcement. You think its always measured before every game? Their trapper gloves are only marginally smaller than a lacrosse goalie's net thingy.

If the NHL decides it needs to be enforced, than it needs to be enforced. The equipment should be measured every game. If the NHL can't be bothered to do this, then it shouldn't pay lip service to changing the goalie equipment at all, and simply go for the bigger nets. I think the size of the equipment could be enforced effectively if there is the will to do so.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

It also was designed so it wouldn't cut the players in half if they ran into it. .

That is how I envision hockey in a post-apocalyptic Canada.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Anyone remember Garth Snow and his "push up" shoulder pads?

He had something in his padding that any time he went down into the butterfly it would push up his shoulder pads.

He also had PVC pipe in his leg pads.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

That is how I envision hockey in a post-apocalyptic Canada.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

This isn't true. One could argue that what we have now is an artificial decrease in goals partially due to unchecked and illegitimate growth in goalie dimensions.

That is partially true, but quite often the modern goalie and defenseman do not get the deserved credit for how much better they are than their predecessors. Goal scoring is down primarily because all defensemen can skate very well, and all goalies are finely conditioned athletes.

Originally Posted by PostandIn

I agree with you from the point of view that the 'ideal' solution is a bigger ice surface so that skill players have room to make skill plays. That said, the NHL won't be mandating retrofitting of rinks. So, what are the practical alternatives to improving the game because hockey circa 2015 is pretty boring?

I don't think the modern game is at all boring, and I also don't think that it is in need of much significant improvement. The 2012–13 and 2013–14 playoffs were arguably some of the best in NHL history. The players are bigger, faster, stronger, and better than at any time in history. Playoff intensity begins in October as opposed to February.

Originally Posted by PostandIn

I don't get the conclusion that an increase in net size 'is almost certain to be marginal'. Widening the net by 6 inches and raising the bar by 4 would force goalies to remain on their skates more and mostly remove the ability to block the entire bottom of the net just by dropping to their knees. Step in the right direction imo.

It's not going to happen. The League is quite conservative, and they tend to treat traditions as sacrosanct. A change of the magnitude you are suggesting is a pipe-dream.

So, yes, I will agree that a major change to the size of the net will obviously increase goal-scoring. I disagree that even that such change will improve the game or make it more exciting. And I am highly confident that such a change will not happen.

[Textcritic]

FYI: I would be totally on board with a reduction in the size of goalie equipment.