Where R U Sean Monahan?

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

By all accounts he has been invisible this season. Some of that may be attributable to Hudler's drop-off (and vice versa), but even when they are separated the consensus is that he looks slow, lost, and even disinterested. Faceoffs have been abysmal.

We're way over-thinking this. Slow? Lost? Disinterested? It's girl trouble.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Split98

Hitting your ceiling at 21 is ultra rare, no?

Not really. Sam Gagner says hi. Best season was his rookie season.

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

Based on his first 2 seasons an argument could be made that Monahan was the best player from his draft class. Now he's terrible?

Who says he's terrible. I'm saying he's not the Saviour first line all star centre that people are expecting him to be.

[genetic_phreek]

Nm

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Who says he's terrible. I'm saying he's not the Saviour first line all star centre that people are expecting him to be.

I don't think people said that. This ain't Edmonton. In fact, most posters I have seen fifured he'd be behind Bennett in the long run.

At best I've heard some say they think he was a better pick than Mackinnon. Maybe that's a lot to say, but points wise you could make the case. I've also heard people prefer him to Nugent-Hopkins.

[heep223]

He's had zero powerplay points this season. Zero. This is an anomaly with the amount of PP time he's had. Add in a few more PPPs and people would be saying he's having a good year and producing at a pretty good clip. He's hit a ton of posts, and now is the victim of some lost confidence.

He'll be just fine.

Someone pointed out faceoffs - that to me is one thing to be a bit concerned about, given how hard he seems to be trying to improve there.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

It's funny how people react when someone says Monahan has basically hit his ceiling or he is not the straw that stirs the drink. I called in to talk to pat stienberg about this on overtime a few games ago and he almost cried. Accused me of having a personal issue against Monahan as well by asking what Sean Monahan did to me. There have been some really good posts in here. Some super childish ones as well accusing flames fans of hating Monahan or saying he sucks.

He obviously doesn't suck. Nobody is saying that.

Nobody ever said he was the best in the draft class. McKinnons skating and skill make him one of the best young players in the league from any recent draft class I'd put Sean 2nd or 3rd in that draft class but that's totally subjective and it's too early as the whole draft class is basically still on their elc. Some players yet to even finish college and some still in ahl.

Anyway I think Sean will be a great 2nd line center for us and would love to see him be a flame forever. I just don't think people should be so quick with the oh we've found our next 10 years 1st line center who will be a perennial all star and on team canada. Basically we've got a toews type.

I think a lot of his goals have been tap ins and easy goals that come from reading the play and going to the net on a line that creates a lot of high quality opportunities, where the defencemen attack and you may find yourself wide open with your stick on the ice and release a great shot. That's not a knock on Sean. It's good. He will score hundreds of goals in the NHL like that. However it doesn't make him a dynamic player or a 1st line center. The poster who said he could be a Daymond Langkow has an interesting point. But that name makes people think it's an insult. Well Daymond had 672points in 1090games. That's a great career. Multiple 30 goal seasons and high 50s or 60s in points. I would be ecstatic if Monahan has a career like Daymond did. it's such a great comparison because langkow had a great shot, was responsible and played 2ways, wasn't the most physical and drove the net with his stick on the ice and good things happened for him.

However one wouldn't say a team with langkow as their 1st line center will be dynamic enough to contend for a number of years. But he would be a great #2. A fantastic one in fact. That's how I feel about Monahan. I hope Bennett can develop and dominate so we effectively have one of the best 1-2 punches up the middle in the whole NHL.

I don't like how emotional people get when someone brings up the idea that maybe Sean was a beneficiary of his line mates or what if he's not dynamic enough to be our 1c on a contending team etc etc. I think Sean is going to be amazing for us but he likely won't lead us to success as our 1st line go to center. He could put up 30 goals and 65 points every season on the 2nd line of a really good, deep team though imo.

I don't think he's hurt. I think he is a player who finishes high quality chances really well and gets into the position to do so. The problem is he doesn't create high quality chances and right now the team isn't getting a lot of those asides from a few players like Gaudreau gio hamilton who have been getting into fantastic scoring positions by moving their feet and rushing in alone.

I think he's really frustrated. Maybe the most frustrated player on the team outside wideman and Russell and perhaps the goalies. He's on pace for 12 goals in a contract year. He is a very serious and competitive guy. He wants to prove he can create offense and be consistent and produce without the other 2. He wants to be that go to guy to score clutch goals. He hasn't and he's noticeably playing different imo because of that. He thrived with no pressure in his rookie season asides from what he put on himself. I think not only is he not a creator offensively he is a streaky player who is affected mentally by things like this. I also think Bennett is not, I think Bennett plays every shift the same and is extremely strong mentally. You could see that when he was denied 2 goals in one period by the refs and then dangled duchene to finally score. All the more reason I hope Bennett works hard and develops into a number one so Sean can be more comfortable and have less stress, worse opponents and lower expectations so he can thrive on the 2nd line.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

They weren't gameplanning for them last year when he was on the only dangerous line on the team?

The Monahan line that was so successful really took off in March so they played a hot last month of the year. In the playoffs they were keyed on and were fairly mediocre save game 6 against the Nucks.

I just think he has become a bigger focal point from the opposing teams now than he was last year when he emerged as a force

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I don't think we are giving enough respect to NHL teams and their preperation and footage watching. Teams have been keying in on him to an increasing degree since he scored 8 goals in his first 6 (?) games. I think that's just an easy excuse to make.

Teams know hockey, they know other teams and they know their best players. Monahan has been a marked threat for teams since his 9 game try out in his rookie season. There's no way they are just now getting onto him after 2 remarkable seasons.

[Vinny01]

Monahan was one of the most sheltered players in the NHL in his rookie season and was not the focal point of the other team. Cammalleri was still the top offensive player on the team and took on the tougher competition.

Monahan did a great job playing tougher minutes as a sophomore but we all must remember his shooting % has been well above league average in both of his seasons. That is partially due to his smarts, his shot, and where he shoots from but he is far more of a marked player now than he has ever been in the NHL before

[wired]

Monahan is not utilizing his body during the game. Its not good when Goudreau hits more than Mr. boring. Hudler is not playing to his potential as well, kind of lazy.
Glad the top line was split up

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Split98

Hitting your ceiling at 21 is ultra rare, no?

I have no idea whether Monahan hit his ceiling or no, but it is not rare at all for the player to have his best year around this age. From Dion Phaneuf to Jason Arnott (scored 33 as 19 years old rookie center, never hit 30 after) to.Mike Comrie. Joe Nieuwendyk hit 50 at his first two seasons in the nhl and never repeat. Ovechkin played his best hockey in his first three seasons. So did Derek Morris and Devan Setogouchi. Literally thousands of players hit their ceiling.at21

[Jay Random]

Pretty common for players' goal production to peak in their early 20s, yes. Assists generally peak in the mid-twenties, and defensive play goes on improving until age or injuries make the player ineffective. Five or six years from now, Monahan may not be a 30-goal scorer, but he'll probably be a much more complete and well-rounded player.

As for this year, it looks to me like he's caught in the general team funk. Both he and the team are substantially better than they've shown so far.

[GioforPM]

I seriously doubt Monahan has peaked. And while he was given softer minutes in his first year, it was not so in the second. He will work through this little slump.

Anyway, as far as playing to potential, sure he's not up to expectations, but on the team, I figure he's middle of the pack as far as that goes. Of the important guys I'd say Hudler has underperformed more, likewise Russell and Wideman. Monahan and Gio have had equally bad starts. Bennett has only just got his game going in the last 3 games.

[JJ1532]

I do think the team/management have put far too much pressure on him. I feel like he has been kinda chucked under a bus this season. Last season, Gaudreau and Hudler helped him out and they all got form together, so there was never an extra pressure on any them, even though they were the top line. Add in the secondary scoring of Jooris, Backlund, Bouma, the d core etc and the pressure was minimal, which allowed Monahan to succeed.

This season though, the secondary scoring has been virtually non-existant. So Monahan probably feels extra pressure as the first line centre to create and score and play above everyone else. I mean, he has played the most minutes on average of all our forwards, a hell of a burden at 21 on a team that was expected to win.

He probably also feels responsible defensively, so his need to focus on all aspects of his game has affected him I reckon.

But the main reason for his under par performances I think is because they gave him an "A" this season. I dunno, I just never saw Monahan as being leadership material. Maybe he was, maybe he was a leader in the room over the last 2 seasons. But not this early. Giving the 'A' to a 20/21 year old seems way too early for me. I think the mental burden of giving him the letter has really knocked him as it just heaped extra pressure on him to perform every week. Maybe I'm way off, maybe it's another issue, I don't know. Or most likely, it's just a combination of all issues all adding up.

But I tell you what, if he comes out of this stretch(which I have no doubt he will), then I don't see what else could possibly faze him. The fact that he has 8 points in 14 games despite all the apparent issues is a credit to him. He I think is showings stacks of mental strength to even contribute anything at the moment. He just needs everyone else to find their game and ease the pressure on him. Then we'll see the Monahan of last year return.

[danny darko]

Oh man these forums get way too over dramatic when things aren't going perfectly. Monahan has peaked? That makes me lol...
This entire team is just dealing with confidence issues at the moment.

[bubbsy]

Geez.

We went a decade where our franchise player was a notorious slow starter. The kid took a while to get going last year, and seems to having a similar start this season.

I am less concerned about Monahan than any other player struggling. Can gio start playing as a top pairing damn again, is Hamilton worthy of the hype, is Wideman too slow and weak defensively?? And we haven't even started talking goaltending yet.

[GioforPM]

Goal, assist, could've had the ENG (was standing right in front except Johnny took it himself).

[Benched]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Goal, assist, could've had the ENG (was standing right in front except Johnny took it himself).

Peaked!

[heep223]

Did someone say in here that players hit their ceiling at 21 now? What a ridiculous statement.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by heep223

Did someone say in here that players hit their ceiling at 21 now? What a ridiculous statement.

It's actually about 23 for forwards of we're talking production. You could easily make the argument that they're better players overall after that though.

Not really any debate on when average peak production is


Can't find the point production, but here's the scoring chance data: