[PGT] Where is the defense? Flames lose to Avs 6-3

[868904]

Was anyone else shocked by the shots on goal count?

I swear the Flames were dominating the first half of the game and it looked like they had possession the whole time but then they flashed the SOGS and Colorado had doubled them up by the mid way point.

I understand if the Flames were outshot in the second half of the game after the wheels came off, but it was just shocking to see the Flames that badly outshot during the first half, when they were dominating play.

[Soccergirl1987]

Originally Posted by 868904

Was anyone else shocked by the shots on goal count?

I swear the Flames were dominating the first half of the game and it looked like they had possession the whole time but then they flashed the SOGS and Colorado had doubled them up by the mid way point.

I understand if the Flames were outshot in the second half of the game after the wheels came off, but it was just shocking to see the Flames that badly outshot during the first half, when they were dominating play.

Ya, I mentioned that in the GT thread. It did not seem right at all. I know Colorado blocked a lot of shots, but even still, the numbers seemed heavily skewed in favour of Colorado.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Not sure what to say............................................... ................This is getting old.

Whats the modern record for goals allowed in a season?

Oilers 2014-15 (worst since last CBA)
276 GA

Our current GA (55 in 13 games) normalized to an 82 game season
347 GA

Kind of interesting.

[Ryan Coke]

I think it was some biased home shot counting.

[buyakasha]

Shot count guy must've left for a break during the game.

[polak]

So this season is going to be about rooting for Gaudreau and Bennett. Depressing to say that this early but this team is not showing any signs of a turnaround. The defense and goaltending always falls apart. Every game.

[ScorchyScorch]

If Brad decides to sit on his hands in terms of deals then just run with Ortio.

When the season is basically a write-off, you give the guys with future potential the chance to learn and grow. It's a waste of time to be giving starts to guys that'll be gone by next summer.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The Good

I haven't seen anyone praising Stajan. I actually think he has been really good for most of the season. He seems to have much more hustle in his game this year than even last year.

Jooris is still working hard. Was starting to doubt him early this season, but he has been decent for the last stretch. Gaudreau and Bennett of course were good. Brodie was great.

One guy that isn't getting any love this season so far, and whom I think has been huge for the Flames thus far, is Engelland. Crap on him all you want for being a stay-at-home physical defencemen rather than an offensive puck-mover, but the guy is doing great. Adds physicality, has been very solid defensively, and has also been getting the puck up to the forwards much better than I remember him. It may also just be that Hamilton is finally finding his game with the Flames now, but perhaps it is no coincidence that Hamilton started getting his groove alongside Engelland?

I thought they did look better as a team tonight again. It seems they are 'fixing' things anyways.

The Bad:

No point in throwing players under the bus. Too many guys are having too many bad games constantly (and sometimes it seems like half the team does it). Goalies need to be better, but the Flames as a group have to help them out and stop the breakdowns. Too much time and space when a breakdown happens for the opposing shooter. Now, you hope that the goalies can make a couple of big saves a game, and that is not happening unfortunately - but you are simply not going to have anything close to a successful season if you keep having turnovers in the defensive zone and neutral zone.

Flames allowed a heck of a lot of perimeter shots last year, but their turnovers were less than this year, and the quality of shots seemed much less. It just seems like it doesn't matter what 5 guys you throw out there - one of those 5 commits a bad turnover it seems, and 2-4 of the other players are playing perfectly well. Next shift out, it is a different guy out of that 5. Sometimes it ends up being 2 or 3 guys making mistakes at once.

As for the season being over - well, luckily for the Flames the Pacific Division sucks. Don't see Anaheim remaining at the bottom. I don't think the rebuilding Arizona Coyotes - with an Arizona franchise player ranked #1 this upcoming draft - will be fighting for a playoff spot. I really do think Canucks are over-achieving. Even if they are not, I think the Flames can catch them. Ditto for San Jose. Who knows what LA is really going to finish off as? Won't even comment on the Oilers. Only dominant team I see is Anaheim, and they have less points than the Flames.

I am actually not worried about any rash moves. Any moves that Treliving will make to salvage the season I think would have to fit his long-term plan. I expect him to ride out this funk unless something decent presents itself to him.

For me, the 'answers' are still in the room. This team got it done last year. Hiller was a consistent .918 (or close) in his career up until this season. Ramo got it done (well enough) last year as well. Ortio as well has shown well last year in his limited games. Suddenly each one 'sucks'? I am not buying it. They all have to be better, but this season's futility is not totally on them. The team is just not playing well, and still giving up too many glorious opportunities. Frolik and Hamilton were good additions to this team - and (finally) they BOTH are playing well. At this time last year, didn't we have Engelland - Smid as the bottom pairing? Huge upgrade (and not even taking into consideration as I stated, Engelland has been playing well). This team IS better, and the answers are in the room.

Worst thing is a knee-jerk reaction to 'save' the season, and I don't think Treliving will do so. If he even thinks about doing it, you know Burke, Pascal and Conroy will all have their input as well. It is less worrisome than if the GM is really the only guy in charge. The buck stops with Treliving (and I do think he has full-control), but we know he has good dialogue with everyone else. I don't anticipate a knee-jerk reaction.

Ride it out until a good opportunity presents itself, or the Flames play through this and get better. If not - or if they 'get better' too late, then you offload some vets (or fringe guys that aren't in the long-term plans) to the highest bidders for more futures/young players as this is still very much a rebuild that is a work in progress. No amount of success last season short of winning the cup should have changed it.

There were definitely some great moments in this game, and the Flames do seem to be playing better. Who knows what Thursday will bring.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

If Brad decides to sit on his hands in terms of deals then just run with Ortio.

When the season is basically a write-off, you give the guys with future potential the chance to learn and grow. It's a waste of time to be giving starts to guys that'll be gone by next summer.

Yeah, and call up some kids while we're at it. Get the likes of Bollig and Raymond a permanent seat in the press box or even a demotion.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

If Brad decides to sit on his hands in terms of deals then just run with Ortio.

When the season is basically a write-off, you give the guys with future potential the chance to learn and grow. It's a waste of time to be giving starts to guys that'll be gone by next summer.

That doesn't work very well usually, and is often a recipe for ruining a young goalie.

For a goalie to develop, it isn't just a matter of seeing enough pucks. It is a matter of confidence. The mental side of the game is without a doubt the most difficult when it comes to a goalie. One just has to look up at Edmonton to see how that does NOT work out well when you just expose your young goalie to a poor team, with heaps of expectations. You need a vet to carry the majority of games and shelter that young guy.

[Stud_McCool]

Is Nakladal still with the team? Sit Wideman for a game or two and play Nakladal or even Smid. Granlund over Backlund. Enough has been said about Raymond, no point beating a dead horse now.

[Buster]

The 1 magical season in about 10 seasons is the McDavid draft year.

There is no justice.

[crapshoot]

Was thinking about this at a lot of times during the game, but how bad is this Avs team? It seemed like they didn't have any possesion game at all for large portions of the game. I felt the Flames were running around at will for the first half and at least parts of the second half.

Sure, they got some timely goals against everyones favorite slump busting opponents, but they don't seem to have any game going. Hrudey mentioned a lot of times during the broadcast how Roy wanted the team to block a lot of shots and create scoring chances on the rush. Can he really believe in that strategy for a third straight year, despite how last year went? Despite their really poor start of this season?

I don't get it, they have some nice pieces to build around, but they don't seem to be building. If anything, Sakic seems to stand pat. A few years ago I really thought the Avs might be going places, now they seem to be going nowhere.

[Dion]

Last year at this time the Flames were getting outstanding goaltending from Ramo and Hiller as the team struggled to find it's identity. Now we have a team that has zero confidence in it's goaltenders and it's showing in their play. Could be a long season.

[LockedOut]

We have a couple of guys down in Stockton (Nakladal and Kulak) and one guy in the pressbox (Smid) that could easily replace Wideman and Russell for a couple of games. Sitting in the pressbox would hopefully light a fire under their ass. It's time to shake things up if they're not going to do anything with the goaltending.

Doing the same with the forwards ranks wouldn't hurt either.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Buster

The 1 magical season in about 10 seasons is the McDavid draft year.

There is no justice.

Who cares? I'd still take that year over a tank any day of the week. Last year was the best year to be a Flames fan in 11 years. McDavid be damned, last year was awesome and I'd do it all over again.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Stud_McCool

Is Nakladal still with the team? Sit Wideman for a game or two and play Nakladal or even Smid. Granlund over Backlund. Enough has been said about Raymond, no point beating a dead horse now.

Nakladal was sent down to stockton on the 29th.

[FireGilbert]

I think I've figured it out. After the success last season the Flames got cocky and upped the difficulty to Superstar. Just turn it back to All Star and all will be good

[Lanny_McDonald]

Changes need to be made or you risk poisoning the well for the young players on the team. When they see veterans play like crap, and get rewarded with more ice time and responsibility, they will end up adopting those same behaviors. Treliving needs to jettison some of his veterans, and as fast as he can. Wideman needs to go, like yesterday. Russell can go at the same time. Raymond and Bollig are automatic deletions up front. Backlund is quickly falling into that strata as well. It doesn't matter what you get back at this point, these veteran guys that contribute so much to losing need to get away from the team for the sake of the team.

Someone earlier in the thread said the answers are in the room. I will put a little different spin on that. I think the answers are within the organization. I think the problems are in the room, but the solution is within the organization. There are players in the minors that just need a chance, and these is a team in Calgary that really needs a shot of youthful enthusiasm in the arm. Treliving can save his "it's okay to over-cook a kid in the minors" bull####. Not when the dish he's serving us right now is a plate of steaming crap. I'd much rather see a kid, who is going to learn from his errors, make the brain farts out there than watch a NHL veteran make those same mistakes and kill the team. I can get behind a team that is at least trying to get better. I can't get behind this collection of has-beens that drag the young developing stars on the team down.

[adc]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I could be wrong but aren't the flames 5-6 points out of a playoff spot? Not sure how they have to go 65% wins for rest of season to make up 6 points?

The bigger concern is the 3 teams (plus Anaheim) that we now have to outplay rather than the 6 points we have to make up.

With 3 point games and so many games against each other we have to outplay 4 other teams to make it and that likely ends up being what kills our play-off chances.