Traffic delays up to 20% alongside downtown cycle lanes, city predicts

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I often hear drivers complain about the volume of traffic. With an increasing population, and people that need to get downtown, wouldn't it make more sense to find ways to get people downtown that don't involve cars? Instead of discouraging cyclists, you should be encouraging them. The more cyclists on the road, the less cars there will be.

Firstly, that's a blanket statement that isn't true. For it to be true, there would have to be the same volume of people going downtown each day, and for every new biker it's one less motorist. This isn't a directly proportional amount. As you point out, our population is increasing and where do new migrants generally live? In sprawling communities. Communities in which it's simply not feasible for the average person to cycle downtown, and making it more likely for one to take transit or drive - not cycle.

That's not to say that I entirely disagree with instituting bike paths, but I would be curious to see the effects on congestion in 3/5/10 years. Research shows that bike lanes don't necessarily cause congestion, but that's dependent on how intelligent cities are with respect to where they build them.

[Bill Bumface]

^ Your increasing population is dealing with finite road space though. Bulldozing buildings downtown to make wider roads is not an option.

If the roads are already full, the only way to handle increasing use is to get more people on the existing infrastructure, or building new infrastructure below grade. Things like:

1) 4 car trains
2) subway
3) Increased bus service
4) car pool/transit lanes
5) bike lanes

Guess which are the cheapest? 4 & 5.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So carving out a very small percentage of roadway for a safe space is wanting all whims of cyclists catered to? I'd think drivers would be happy with separate bike lanes, they are always yelling to get bikes of the f'n road! No pleasing some people.

You're conflating two things to build a strawman. I am talking about the attitude of many cyclists, not the action of building the cycle track. My point is that cyclists have no call to be referring to others as being "elitist".

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

^ Your increasing population is dealing with finite road space though. Bulldozing buildings downtown to make wider roads is not an option.

If the roads are already full, the only way to handle increasing use is to get more people on the existing infrastructure, or building new infrastructure below grade. Things like:

1) 4 car trains
2) subway
3) Increased bus service
4) car pool/transit lanes
5) bike lanes

Guess which are the cheapest? 4 & 5.

Cheapest does not mean best. It doesn't even mean effective.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Cheapest does not mean best. It doesn't even mean effective.

Which method do you think would be most effective at increasing capacity on a road that is already at its maximum car capacity?

If I tell you that a bike lane would increase the number of people (people, not cars) moving through a certain point, would you say that it is effective?

How are you judging effectiveness?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Cheapest does not mean best. It doesn't even mean effective.

You're right, having 30 subway lines in Calgary is the best and most effective.

It turns out price does matter though. Quite a bit.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I work on 8th street. The city spent a lot of money building an incredibly nice bike lane extending the the entire way down 7th street, and most definitely has increased traffic delays. I didn't really have a problem with this originally, I still routinely almost get hit by bikes while walking on the sidewalk between 4th and 6th avenue when there's a goddamn bike lane one street over. If they aren't on the sidewalk, they are weaving in and out of traffic at red lights, completely abandoning the rules of the road.

Meanwhile, I can count on one hand the bikes on the multi-million dollar bike lake, one block over. I can't speak for all the bike lanes that have been added, but the one on 8th street is an epic failure and speaks to the complete hypocrisy of a decent chunk in the cyclists in this city. Many of the people in the surrounding office buildings and commercial establishments have made multiple complaints to the city about the cyclists on 7th avenue, and have asked them to simply enforce the law. Nothing has been done, not so much as sending out an officer once to write some tickets.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I work on 8th street. The city spent a lot of money building an incredibly nice bike lane extending the the entire way down 7th street, and most definitely has increased traffic delays. I didn't really have a problem with this originally, I still routinely almost get hit by bikes while walking on the sidewalk between 4th and 6th avenue when there's a goddamn bike lane one street over. If they aren't on the sidewalk, they are weaving in and out of traffic at red lights, completely abandoning the rules of the road.

Meanwhile, I can count on one hand the bikes on the multi-million dollar bike lake, one block over. I can't speak for all the bike lanes that have been added, but the one on 8th street is an epic failure and speaks to the complete hypocrisy of a decent chunk in the cyclists in this city. Many of the people in the surrounding office buildings and commercial establishments have made multiple complaints to the city about the cyclists on 7th avenue, and have asked them to simply enforce the law. Nothing has been done, not so much as sending out an officer once to write some tickets.

So they put a bike lane in a fairly useless location, and few people use it.

Damn cyclists!!

[jammies]

I wouldn't mind seeing downtown become "no-bike" zones except for the cycle paths and designated streets. If you're never more than 2 blocks from a bike lane/street, walking your bike for 2-3 minutes at most should be no problem. If I take the C-train, bus, or car, I generally am going to have to walk a block or two to get to work, so the cyclists don't need to get a bag of special candy.

I also think there should be far more stringent enforcement keeping bikes off of sidewalks. Get bylaw officers out there ticketing the idiots that think they are too good to get off and walk. Up the fines to truly punitive levels, and maybe seize the bikes for god measure.

And I say this as someone that is fully in support of the bike lanes and building more of them to boot. As resolute says, cyclists are not an elite, they need to be regulated and have those regulations enforced like every other mode of transportation.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I work on 8th street. The city spent a lot of money building an incredibly nice bike lane extending the the entire way down 7th street, and most definitely has increased traffic delays. I didn't really have a problem with this originally, I still routinely almost get hit by bikes while walking on the sidewalk between 4th and 6th avenue when there's a goddamn bike lane one street over. If they aren't on the sidewalk, they are weaving in and out of traffic at red lights, completely abandoning the rules of the road.

Meanwhile, I can count on one hand the bikes on the multi-million dollar bike lake, one block over. I can't speak for all the bike lanes that have been added, but the one on 8th street is an epic failure and speaks to the complete hypocrisy of a decent chunk in the cyclists in this city. Many of the people in the surrounding office buildings and commercial establishments have made multiple complaints to the city about the cyclists on 7th avenue, and have asked them to simply enforce the law. Nothing has been done, not so much as sending out an officer once to write some tickets.

Do you mean 7th street? and not sure what you mean about cyclists on 7th ave, that's the LRT road...
anyway, if you are talking about the original cycle track on 7th st, and you think you can count the cyclists on one hand I suggest you try opening both your eyes. I ride it every day, and most days there are at least a few other cyclists at the same time as me. Ignoring anecdotes, you can look at the data:
http://www.eco-public.com/public2/?id=100017181
even yesterday, in the snow, over 400 trips were made. A few more than you can count on one hand.

The only time I've ever seen minor traffic issues is when cars park in the no parking zones and create bottlenecks. I've never seen 1 block of grid lock. It has absolutely not made traffic worse.

As for your argument of poor cyclist behaviors, I've seen cars driving in the cycle track, one even the wrong way to avoid having to go around the block. I've see vehicles turn across the double red light. I've seen them fail to yield to cyclists as they exit parkades, I've seen left turns made far after the light turns red on 4th. I've seen pedestrians walk against a red light while looking at their phone, and basically daily they use the cycle track to J-walk as it is seen as a safe island and shortens the J-walknig distance.

The sooner you realize it is PEOPLE who are horrible, and not one subset using one mode of transit, the sooner we can move on from this ridiculous part of the argument.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by jammies

I wouldn't mind seeing downtown become "no-bike" zones except for the cycle paths and designated streets. If you're never more than 2 blocks from a bike lane/street, walking your bike for 2-3 minutes at most should be no problem. If I take the C-train, bus, or car, I generally am going to have to walk a block or two to get to work, so the cyclists don't need to get a bag of special candy.

I also think there should be far more stringent enforcement keeping bikes off of sidewalks. Get bylaw officers out there ticketing the idiots that think they are too good to get off and walk. Up the fines to truly punitive levels, and maybe seize the bikes for god measure.

And I say this as someone that is fully in support of the bike lanes and building more of them to boot. As resolute says, cyclists are not an elite, they need to be regulated and have those regulations enforced like every other mode of transportation.

I'm not sure why you need a "no bike zone". Are cyclists really impeding traffic that much on streets where there are no bike lanes? Be honest, how many seconds a day are lost to a driver stuck behind a bike in the core?

I agree with the riding on sidewalk issue though. The fact is, the majority of the really bad behaviour is bike couriers. Unfortunately given the limits they have their only choice is to ride the way they do. I'd imagine they'd get fired for taking the time to obey the laws.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ignoring anecdotes, you can look at the data:
http://www.eco-public.com/public2/?id=100017181
even yesterday, in the snow, over 400 trips were made. A few more than you can count on one hand.

Interesting information, do you have the link for the other cycle tracks? The link on the City of Calgary website doesn't seem to work.

[Fuzz]

Ya, the main link here:
http://www.eco-public.com/ParcPublic/?id=4190
seams to be borked today. It usually works, check back tomorrow.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

So they put a bike lane in a fairly useless location, and few people use it.

Damn cyclists!!

What the hell are you talking about? The 7th street bike lane hooks up with all major paths and leads directly to the new Peace bridge. It's basically a perfect location. The problem is the cyclists that live west of Kensington like to cut off a maybe one-two minute bike drive by going illegally over the 10th street bridge, which for your reference, is mandatory that they get off and walk their bike across. I have never seen one person in my 6 years of walking across that bridge seen a cyclist follow the law and actually walk their bike across that bridge.

Your logic is ridiculous. If I don't like the city the lane built me to drive my car in because I want to be one block over, should I be allowed to drive up a sidewalk with my car and hit dozens of people and throw my hands up and say " Screw it, I wanted this road to be one block over." Unfortunate your attitude is shared by a sizeable portion of the cyclists in Calgary who chose to follow the rules of the road only when it benefits them, and is the big reason why such projects are met with such dismay by the general population. Why should people inconvenience themselves for cyclists when they are going to do whatever the hell they want anyways?

[Bunk]

Transportation systems are most efficient when mode share is as more evenly split - private vehicle, transit, walk, cycle. A system catered exclusively to cars works poorly for everyone including (and especially) for people in cars.

The fact is the bike lanes carve out as much space as is its mode share (~3% of lane km downtown).

In fact, if we were to cater to the "majority" of commuters downtown, we'd have far more dedicated bus lanes and higher signal priority for LRT since 50% of commuters reach downtown by transit, about 39% by car and 11% by either walking or cycling.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not sure why you need a "no bike zone". Are cyclists really impeding traffic that much on streets where there are no bike lanes? Be honest, how many seconds a day are lost to a driver stuck behind a bike in the core?

I agree with the riding on sidewalk issue though. The fact is, the majority of the really bad behaviour is bike couriers. Unfortunately given the limits they have their only choice is to ride the way they do. I'd imagine they'd get fired for taking the time to obey the laws.

I disagree that the majority of the people driving on the sidewalks are bike couriers. The bike couriers definitely do this, but they are a small percentage of the bike traffic compared to commuters. The majority I see are commuters trying to shave off time on their commute. As I mentioned in my previous post, if I'm stuck in traffic in a car or bus, I can't decide to drive on the sidewalk or the wrong way down a one way street.

There used to be the argument that it was because they didn't feel safe, but they are Still doing it now that they have dedicated bike lanes. That really agitates me given my commute is being extended for those dedicated bike lanes to exist. I have no problem with this either, so long as they are being used, and used to the extent of the law. They are not.

[Temporary_User]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Your logic is ridiculous. If I don't like the city the lane built me to drive my car in because I want to be one block over, should I be allowed to drive up a sidewalk with my car and hit dozens of people and throw my hands up and say " Screw it, I wanted this road to be one block over." Unfortunate your attitude is shared by a sizeable portion of the cyclists in Calgary who chose to follow the rules of the road only when it benefits them, and is the big reason why such projects are met with such dismay by the general population. Why should people inconvenience themselves for cyclists when they are going to do whatever the hell they want anyways?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

A GIF.....The typical response from an individual who has no logical counterargument.

What's the difference between someone in a vehicle making their own rules when it's suit them and a cyclist? There's none under the motor vehicle act.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I disagree that the majority of the people driving on the sidewalks are bike couriers. The bike couriers definitely do this, but they are a small percentage of the bike traffic compared to commuters. The majority I see are commuters trying to shave off time on their commute. As I mentioned in my previous post, if I'm stuck in traffic in a car or bus, I can't decide to drive on the sidewalk or the wrong way down a one way street.

There used to be the argument that it was because they didn't feel safe, but they are STILL doing it now that they have dedicated bike lanes. That really agitates me given my commute is being extended for those dedicated bike lanes to exist. I have no problem with this either, so long as they are being used, and used to the extent of the law. They are not.

Are they doing it on the streets with dedicated bike lanes? I mentioned couriers because they are the only ones I've seen do that on 7th. The vast vast majority of cyclists I see on 7th obey the law, with the exception of the 4 way stop at 3rd. That one needs work, and the cops have done ticketing blitzes there.

[shermanator]

Having worked downtown for 7 years, I've never really understood why people insist on driving downtown to get to work. It's by far the most costly option, and on the majority of the days there is congestion on the roads in some form.

As someone who will never drive to work downtown in my lifetime, I'm curious why others do? Is it simply a choice of convenience? Is it because those who do work downtown and have customers out of the core? Is it because transit service to the far flung suburbs is spotty? Because as someone who walks to work everyday the majority of rush hour drivers seem absolutely miserable every day.

From my own experience as someone who lives in the core, but doesn't use the bike lanes, the only thing I've noticed is that the driving lanes on 12th aren't consistent from 11th St to 1st St. There are always 2 driving lanes but the lane in which cars park changes up between the left lane and the right lane. Get that straightened out and I have no complaints.