GT: Federal Election

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by calumniate

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/...nsus-1.3283941

Amazing sound byte from one of our smartest Canadians, speaking out on harper's war against fact, science or reason. He was really something, to not be remembered

From the link:

It cost an extra $22 million to replace the mandatory census with the voluntary National Household Survey.

WTF were the Conservatives thinking? We got useless data AND it cost the taxpayers more money. Were they deliberately trying to sabotage evidence-based decision making in government so they could push through their ideological agenda without having to worry about being contradicted by annoying little things like "facts"? That's the only possible explanation I can think of on why they would have done this.

[Daradon]

Not that I am defending what the Conservatives did with the census, cause I am not, but what kind of info would they be getting rid of or hiding from a census that would push ideological based decisions?

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

From the link:



WTF were the Conservatives thinking? We got useless data AND it cost the taxpayers more money. Were they deliberately trying to sabotage evidence-based decision making in government so they could push through their ideological agenda without having to worry about being contradicted by annoying little things like "facts"? That's the only possible explanation I can think of on why they would have done this.

Wouldn't surprise me. I used to get junk mail from my MP all the time, with "updates" on what the Conservatives were doing. The flyers always asked me to check off a choice and send it back. The choices were typically, "The Conservatives are on the right track," of "I want to die in the most painful way possible." Okay, the second one wasn't quite that, but it was always a choice between saying the Conservatives were great or something no one would ever want to pick.

[Daradon]

Yeah, I always wondered what kind of useful information they could possibly get from those. I figured it was just advertising, not a real desire to get info or feedback. A sort of 'look at what were doing that's awesome! And if you don't think it's awesome, here's the only other alternative!'

Box 1: I support bill C-51
Box 2: I would prefer my family be raped and killed by terrorists

[Amethyst]

I thought it was mainly advertising, but also something they could use to claim that everyone supported whatever they were advertising.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Not that I am defending what the Conservatives did with the census, cause I am not, but what kind of info would they be getting rid of or hiding from a census that would push ideological based decisions?

I think it cut off a lot of regional policy making and reform, and long term industry planning. The census provides detailed demographics across all corners of Canada, and without it local municipalities were left without data to make effective decisions. So basically it took the power of information away from municipalities and provinces allowing Harper to do what he wanted without as much resistance

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

From the link:



WTF were the Conservatives thinking? We got useless data AND it cost the taxpayers more money. Were they deliberately trying to sabotage evidence-based decision making in government so they could push through their ideological agenda without having to worry about being contradicted by annoying little things like "facts"? That's the only possible explanation I can think of on why they would have done this.

Yes, that is exactly what they were doing and it shouldn't surprise anyone anymore that that is the Conservative game plan.

Status quo is a conservative victory. Obfuscation and misdirection are the tools to achieve that aim

[Locke]

I present to you the brand new 24 Sussex Drive(way)!

[burn_this_city]

Of course rich boy would opt for an airstream.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Of course rich boy would opt for an airstream.

Vintage Airstream!

Nothing but the best!

[burn_this_city]

Would look good behind that 300SL

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by calumniate

I think it cut off a lot of regional policy making and reform, and long term industry planning. The census provides detailed demographics across all corners of Canada, and without it local municipalities were left without data to make effective decisions. So basically it took the power of information away from municipalities and provinces allowing Harper to do what he wanted without as much resistance

I'm not a supporter of non evidence based decision making, but I had never spent a couple hours in a more intrusive, boring, useless waste of my time than filling out a long form census. I am not certain how the numbers of rooms in my home, how many of which are bedrooms and if the dwelling is in need of any repairs and "how much time I spent doing unpaid housework, yard work or home maintenance for members of this household, or others" is vital information for government decision making in this country.

Edit to add: Here are the 'vital' questions that were the 2006 long form census
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb-bmdi..._Q2_V3-eng.pdf

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Edit to add: Here are the 'vital' questions that were the 2006 long form census

Exactly, never understood the whole long form census thing that has the Harper haters foaming at the mouth. Most of that crap is none of the governments business. I never got one but there is no way in hell I'd be filling in 40 pages of intrusive crap.

How many people in a house, what ages, what gender, that's all they need to know and that is in the regular census.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

How do you feel about Bill C-51?

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I'm not a supporter of non evidence based decision making, but I had never spent a couple hours in a more intrusive, boring, useless waste of my time than filling out a long form census. I am not certain how the numbers of rooms in my home, how many of which are bedrooms and if the dwelling is in need of any repairs and "how much time I spent doing unpaid housework, yard work or home maintenance for members of this household, or others" is vital information for government decision making in this country.

Edit to add: Here are the 'vital' questions that were the 2006 long form census
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb-bmdi..._Q2_V3-eng.pdf

When I was completing my Masters of Public health we used so much of the long form census data in quantifying health economic problems, we basically had data for any health related question we could think of.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by J epworth

When I was completing my Masters of Public health we used so much of the long form census data in quantifying health economic problems, we basically had data for any health related question we could think of.

Yeah but is this the right way to get that info? By asking me to self report my health related information. And then we will assume it accurate?

Does this person have any
difficulty hearing, seeing,
communicating, walking,
climbing stairs, bending,
learning or doing any similar
activities?
With, of course, the followup
Does a physical condition or
mental condition or health
problem reduce the amount
or the kind of activity this
person can do:
(a) at home?
(b) at work or at school?
(c) in other activities, for example,
transportation or leisure?

I'm shocked as a nation we have managed to make it these past few years without this kind of vital self reported information

I'm not saying we don't need good information... But anyone who thinks the long form census was vital in the form exactly as was including all the asinine questions it asked... never actually ever looked at what or how the information was asked/reported .

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

How do you feel about Bill C-51?

C-51 was a waste of time.
Ottawa should have just asked you to self report yourself as a terrorist on the long form census and rounded up terrorists that way... because we know the very best possible method of gathering good data vital to our nation is through self reporting in a long form census.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yeah but is this the right way to get that info? By asking me to self report my health related information. And then we will assume it accurate?

Does this person have any
difficulty hearing, seeing,
communicating, walking,
climbing stairs, bending,
learning or doing any similar
activities?
With, of course, the followup
Does a physical condition or
mental condition or health
problem reduce the amount
or the kind of activity this
person can do:
(a) at home?
(b) at work or at school?
(c) in other activities, for example,
transportation or leisure?

I'm shocked as a nation we have managed to make it these past few years without this kind of vital self reported information

I'm not saying we don't need good information... But anyone who thinks the long form census was vital in the form exactly as was including all the asinine questions it asked... never actually ever looked at what or how the information was asked/reported .

I'm confused, what exactly is the problem with those series of questions? I get that there's going to be some margin for error due to self-reporting but at lot of that info is incredibly vital for urban planning, delivery of services, etc.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yes, that is exactly what they were doing and it shouldn't surprise anyone anymore that that is the Conservative game plan.



Status quo is a conservative victory. Obfuscation and misdirection are the tools to achieve that aim

At the end of the day, it is nothing more base than MPs and the PM doing whatever they can to try to hold on to their 160k salaries and pensions. It's sad that it's allowed to play out like this. It feels like the Emperor taking over the Galactic Senate in Star Wars.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm confused, what exactly is the problem with those series of questions? I get that there's going to be some margin for error due to self-reporting but at lot of that info is incredibly vital for urban planning, delivery of services, etc.

I should decide, diagnose and report a mental or physical ailment for myself or others in my home that restricts them from doing things like learning or bending or similar. My anecdotal self diagnosis is incredibly vital exactly how?
Shouldn't we, if we are talking about evidence based decision making, use like evidence?