[PGT] Game of Ghouls: Habs murder Flames 6-2 - Page 14 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Flames Fan, Ph.D. · 10-31-2015, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

I don't think anyone is blaming the goalies. They're not the problem, but they're also not doing anything to help. One crucial save, or one game without a soft goal would be fantastic.

I do think there is some goalie blaming going on this season. It has been deserved, and I've contributed to it.

But in the bigger picture, I agree with your comment. A solid 60 minute effort from a goalie would go a long way to helping this team.

Go_Flames4ever · 10-31-2015, 01:46 AM

I think Moe was just trolling Pat...almost like a pest we need on the team

crapshoot · 10-31-2015, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

The long stretch pass doesn't work as teams have figured out how to play us.

Players look totaly lost as to what they should be doing. I don't know if it's because of a new systen the coaching staff is trying to install, but they have zero confidence right now and that scares me.

The stretch pass is certainly debateable at this point, especially after seeing Russell ice the puck on a PP with four guys standing still on the blueline. I dont believe for a second that teams have figured the flames out and that is why this horrible streak is happening though. They have been playing good enough to win games for the most part lately. They had lots of quality scoring chances through the last couple of games, outshooting and outchancing their opponents. It's actually been enjoyable to watch for big chunks of the games. The confidence part I agree with, as that may be the reason to why they keep looking for perfect passes way too often instead of just shooting the damn puck at the net.

crapshoot · 10-31-2015, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

I don't think anyone is blaming the goalies. They're not the problem, but they're also not doing anything to help. One crucial save, or one game without a soft goal would be fantastic.

They are a huge part of the problem. It's rare to see so many soft goals with such bad timing throught an extended time like this. Anywhere near league average goaltending and our record would definately have been better at this point.

Soccergirl1987 · 10-31-2015, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crapshoot

The stretch pass is certainly debateable at this point, especially after seeing Russell ice the puck on a PP with four guys standing still on the blueline. I dont believe for a second that teams have figured the flames out and that is why this horrible streak is happening though. They have been playing good enough to win games for the most part lately. They had lots of quality scoring chances through the last couple of games, outshooting and outchancing their opponents. It's actually been enjoyable to watch for big chunks of the games. The confidence part I agree with, as that may be the reason to why they keep looking for perfect passes way too often instead of just shooting the damn puck at the net.

That was infuriating.The stretch pass is a useful tool, but shouldn't be the only way you can get into the opposition's zone. I feel like the last couple of games they've been a bit better about using it a little more sparingly, but there are still way too many of those that seem to miss/hop over the receiving players stick, resulting in what feels like an endless stream of icing calls.

theoforever · 10-31-2015, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go_Flames4ever

I think Moe was just trolling Pat...almost like a pest we need on the team

Pat was getting hysterical, ended up apologizing when he realized what a jerk he was, and he realized it probably by reading comments.

Moe was right that Monahan wasn't the driving offensive force on that line but beneficiary. Monahan lacks speed, and for a big guy he lacks physicality.
Having said that he can still be a number one Center and he is tracking to be just that.

Phil Russell · 10-31-2015, 05:32 AM

The team is in a total tailspin. Nothing is working well and confidence is shot. Goaltending is the leading, but not only culprit. There is no denying that even average goaltending has the Flames with two or three more wins at this point in the season.

We have seen these types of losing streaks before, even last year. Albeit, this losing streak is more epic. They will break out of it eventually. The team is not this bad and confidence will return. But, the playoffs are likely a lost cause and its probably time to accept the "regression" label. I did not think that was going to happen.

Crumpy-Gunt · 10-31-2015, 06:03 AM

Moe here,

Just getting up to watch soccer. Didn't realize you guys like me more on overtime than on this forum. I'm always posting about how Monahan is not a number one center.

He isn't engaged enough, he isn't a great skater, he doesn't set people up often, he simply drives he net well and has a wicked wrist shot. he isn't physical, has no real compete level or fire. Go watch his rookie season highlights by the wonderful AC. It goes.. tap in, tap in, rebound, wicked wrister from in close, tap in, nice feeds and easy finishes repeat and repeat That being said I'd love him as a 2nd line center in the future. I just don't think he is a 1c on a contender. Not dynamic enough imo. Gaudreau needs a dynamic speedy dangerous forward to open up more ice for him so he can terrorize the league even worse. Hopefully Bennett can become that guy.

I think Bennett will be our number one center and am wary of the flames handing out a big 7x7 contract to Mony based on his rookie campaign and his performance last season.

However..I didn't call in to troll pat. I love pat. I called in because I was listening to the show and a caller mentioned he thought Monahan wasn't going to be a top line center because he doesn't create enough and that Bennett would overtake him. Pat basically told the caller he didn't know what he was talking about and Monahan is projecting to be a leading center in the league.

I didn't quite realize how worked up he would get if I suggested that Monahans goals don't mean he is nessicarily going to be a number one center in this league. I wanted to make my points and let him speak but he kept cutting me off and I didn't like how he was speaking to the previous callers right before me so I decided to speak a bit louder and cut him off so I could say what I called in to say without him rambling off about Monahans 30 goals in an anomalous season playing in between Hudler and Gaudreau. Basically playing with our version of the sedins and in front of gio and Brodie.

Maybe those numbers are inflated. I simply wanted to challenge pat to watch Monahans highlights and tell me if any other elite number one centers score 99percent of their goals in the blue paint or off a wicked pass or a nice uncontested in close wrist shot. He didn't let me get that far so I cut him off a few times.

Anyway I like pat but I just wish he was more open to other opinions and views and entertained thoughts he didn't nessicarily agree with. Had a bit of humility. He seems like a teacher marking people's flames opinions sometimes. "I agree! You are correct or I disagree you are incorrect" it's kind of lame.

Crumpy-Gunt · 10-31-2015, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoforever

Pat was getting hysterical, ended up apologizing when he realized what a jerk he was, and he realized it probably by reading comments.

Moe was right that Monahan wasn't the driving offensive force on that line but beneficiary. Monahan lacks speed, and for a big guy he lacks physicality.
Having said that he can still be a number one Center and he is tracking to be just that.

What? He apologized to me? I stopped listening after he called me a troll a few times. He sounded totally disoriented by my call and couldn't focus on the next one so I just switched off cause pat kind of got on my nerves at that point. I do think he's good at what he does though. Maybe not the best for overtime.

PeteMoss · 10-31-2015, 07:50 AM

I'm blaming the goalies.

There are two teams with save percentages in .860s - Calgary and Columbus. You give this team every bad goaltending (instead of completely awful) and they'd have 2-3 more wins.

PeteMoss · 10-31-2015, 07:53 AM

But I'm not blaming Ortio. He was awful yesterday, but they just decided to keep him out of games for 2-3 so they could rotate two middling goalies.

CliffFletcher · 10-31-2015, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

If I wanted to hear trash radio I would listen to Stern ( which I do) but for someone reporting on the Flames as a professional I expect a professional to do so in a professional manner. Not some #### yelling and screaming for desageeing hell he makes Eric Francis look like Elliott Friedman.

I wonder how much their lack of professionalism comes from being fanboys employed by the Flames. It might be nice to have a radio show run by independent journalists. Guys like Kelly Hrudey and Eric Duhatschek don't fly off the handle because they're not as emotionally invested in the team. And that makes for better journalism.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-31-2015, 08:12 AM

It is time for Mr. Treliving to earn his money. He has to do some serious evaluation quickly, figure out what and where the problems are, and make corrections immediately. Here is some advice for Mr. Treliving, I hope he is reading.

The first problem with the Flames is their strategy. The book is out on them, and they cannot adapt. They should be playing a much different game. The stretch pass game is done. Every team in the league knows we are going to play for it, and they have taken that away. That has put way too much pressure on the defense, as the opposition knows they have to jump on them early and often before they can get ready to make the Hail Mary pass. This is also doubly bad because the forwards have all left the zone and have left the defense prone to a mistake and quick turnover. This was a good strategy, but it no longer works and it is time to move on to something else. This leads to the first personnel issue to deal with.

The pressure is on Bob Hartley to prove he is anything but a one trick pony coach. He has proven that he can come up with an inventive game plan. Now he has to prove he can adapt and come up with a second and a third. This team is not prepared to play and they don't know what to do when things aren't working for them. They look baffled when the defense stands them up and the blue line and they can't adapt. That is all coaching. Either Hartley comes up with something fast, or he's got to be fired. Good coaches are good strategists and teachers. Hartley seems to be lacking at both right now, which makes him a problem.

The second problem with the Flames is the value they are getting from their veterans. There are too many guys that are supposedly here for their veteran presence and calming influence. If these guys have so much presence and understand the game so well, why are they the ones that look so lost out there. Mason Raymond, Brandon Bollig, and David Jones provide little to this team. They don't project much leadership on the ice unless falling down at every opportunity, taking dumb penalties when you can, and blending into the woodwork so you are un-noticable at both ends of the ice, are the leadership qualities you are looking for? These guys are wasted roster spots that could go to guys that have potential to get much better. These guys on the forward lines need to go immediately and opportunity given to players that may have a future with this team.

The third problem is the back end and the makeup of it. The top guys are obvious. Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton are your top three. Now you have to find an effective bottom three. Wideman, Russell and Engelland are not it. All are too expensive for what they bring. You can keep one of them, but not all three. If I were making the choice I go with Engelland and I move the other two. I think Engelland actually has some leadership qualities and plays a different game that is complimentary to the top guys, so he is the best fit. Wideman and Russell are redundant pieces to the top three, so they need to be moved for complimentary pieces that solidify the back end. I think those complimentary pieces exist in the minors, or possibly in some form of trade, so I'm not concerned about what comes back, as long as these two guys are moved so we open up the roster spots.

The fourth problem plaguing the team right now is under-performance from players in important roles. I'm talking about centers who are here to provide solid two way play and be calming influences out there. Mr. Backlund is stinking the joint up this season, and that is a big problem for a team looking for secondary scoring. To make matters worse, his defensive play has been atrocious. The bigger problem is that Mr. Stajan is playing just as bad. One of these guys has to step up and start playing, and the other guy has to be moved to make room for younger players that may be part of the long term solution, because neither is part of the long term solution. It is time to start looking to the minors and giving Billy Arnold that chance to step up and be that solid defensive guy who can also chip in some offense, like Craig Conroy did for us. I see a lot of Craig Conroy in Billy Arnold, and it is time to give him a chance.

The fifth problem on this team is the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room. The goaltending situation is a mess. Brad Treliving created this monster and now he has to deal with it. It was obvious the Flames weren't happy with Hiller after last season as they tried to deal him all summer. They were so certain they had a deal in place they went out and signed Ramo. Unfortunately the deal fell through and the Flames were stuck with Hiller. Instead of just sucking up this mistake and moving forward with the plan, by waiving Hiller and dispatching him to the minors, they went with the three-headed goalie mess. No one stepped up in camp, making it more complex. The team played like crap in front of Ramo and he gave up a back breaker in a game they should have won, so he was sent to the minors. Unfortnately, Hiller's Shooter Tutor-like play has been picked apart and has hurt the Flames even more. By time they are forced to go to Ortio he hasn't seen a meaningful shot in weeks and it shows. The Flames are left with not a single goaltender with any confidence or playing to their ability. They should have stuck with the original plan, got rid of Hiller at any means, and gone with Ramo and Ortio. Now they have to hope these guys can right the ship and start playing after an extended period of BS and putting the team behind the 8 ball. This type of poor decision making, and the impact it has on the team, is enough to get a GM fired, so how Mr. Treliving manages this debacle should make the decision pretty easy for Mr. Burke moving forward.

The final problem for the Flames is the handling of their talent in the minors. This is a team that is rebuilding. They should be leaning on their young guys that have potential to be players in the NHL. I understand the whole "never given, always earned" mantra, but when you have Raymond, Bollig, Jones, Jooris, Backlund, Stajan, Russell, Wideman and Hiller sucking on the tail pipe each night, it is hard to put much faith in that mantra. It is tough to see a kid like Kulak get sent down when he clearly played better than many of his team mates. It is also hard to understand what the team is thinking when they recall a guy like 25 year old AHL journeyman Derek Grant over some of their better prospects. Does this guy have a NHL future? Will he make this team better long term through the learning lessons he's getting in the NHL? I think we are much better off bring in guys that may be a long term solution and getting them some on-the-job learning experience.

This is a team that had so much potential coming into the season, but a couple bad decisions here and there really hamstrung the team. They may still right the ship, but they need to do it quickly. 10 points is almost an insurmountable lead in the NHL, even with 70 games left in the season, so they need to make moves now, or throw in the towel at Halloween. Pretty bleak situation, one that Mr. Treliving is fully responsible for. Will be interesting to see what he does.

Soccergirl1987 · 10-31-2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

What? He apologized to me? I stopped listening after he called me a troll a few times. He sounded totally disoriented by my call and couldn't focus on the next one so I just switched off cause pat kind of got on my nerves at that point. I do think he's good at what he does though. Maybe not the best for overtime.

He apologized at the very end of the show (when he was signing off) for getting so emotional/agitated with a number of callers. He specifically mentioned your call as one that got him particularly agitated.

I usually feel like Pat has a lot of patience, because there are some pretty uninformed fans calling in, and he usually tolerates it pretty well. Yesterday though, he was losing it with some callers that I thought make some pretty good points, and were definitely informed, but just had different opinions. In the future hopefully he's a bit more calm, and can actually discuss these things, rather than go off the rails...and maybe a night off will help a little as well

JiriHrdina · 10-31-2015, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wonder how much their lack of professionalism comes from being fanboys employed by the Flames. It might be nice to have a radio show run by independent journalists. Guys like Kelly Hrudey and Eric Duhatschek don't fly off the handle because they're not as emotionally invested in the team. And that makes for better journalism.

Just to clarify he's not employed by the Flames and he's not a fan boy. False assumptions

heep223 · 10-31-2015, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

I don't think anyone is blaming the goalies. They're not the problem, but they're also not doing anything to help. One crucial save, or one game without a soft goal would be fantastic.

They are absolutely a huge problem. They are terrible. That said the defence is terrible, the offence is terrible, the coaching is terrible...

Bleh

JiriHrdina · 10-31-2015, 09:43 AM

Goaltending is the biggest problem because if the team doesn't believe the guy will make the big save it impacts how everyone plays. And almost every game there has been at least one bad goal. Not nearly good enough

2ArmBands · 10-31-2015, 09:50 AM

Tried to stay away from the board last night as I was definitely emotionally charged. Just want to get a couple things off my chest.

First off... I've been to all the home games this year and as well know there have been some very difficult nights in the dome this year. Last night was just awful and very difficult to stomach. Ole chants and Go Habs Go chants were rampant. Honestly, it was embarrassing. I would put it at same level of dissapointment as the Oilers game which was barely tolerable. I understand that when these teams come into the Saddledome and the team plays poorly this are very possible outcomes.

What really bugged me at the time and is still annoying me today is what happened after all the hats hit the ice with the hat trick goal. If I recall correctly, we ice a line of Backlund, Raymond, and who ever else was skating on that line (can't recall right now.) Some of the softest players on this team. What kind of message are they sending to the opposing team and the fans? The way the Flames have played in their home barn this year has been pitiful and pathetic at times. The rest of the game from that point I saw nothing inspiring. Very few checks finished... No message sent.

Last night the team flat out quit. Obviously we have issues that run deep on the ice with goaltending, defense, lack of scoring etc... But for this team to lay down like that is completely baffling to me. It's beyond frustrating. It's unacceptable.

CaptainCrunch · 10-31-2015, 09:52 AM

That was an embarrassment, but this team has spent most of the season being embarrassed. At some point Hartley is going to have to do the big face slap or Treliving is going to have to make a shakeup move.

Frankly I was watching that game, and for the first period and a half the Flames were the far better team, but whenever they had good momentum or a goal to tie the game, the goaltending or the defense would let them down. There were 3 goals that a NHL goalie has to find a save. All you could see on the bench when the 4th goal when in was a team packing it in and saving their energy for tonight.

Wrong message to the coaches.

I don't know what it is that's changed with the goaltending or defense, but these two parts of the Flames game are the worst I've ever seen and I've watched this team since it moved to Calgary.

Roof-Daddy · 10-31-2015, 10:18 AM

Anaheim 1-7-2
Calgary 2-8-1

Must be that pesky old "Pacific Division Finals Hangover"