[Rumour] Wideman and Russell's names on the trade market

[Ashasx]

Is a player actually really that good at defending if that's what "he ends up doing all the time"?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm actually very surprised the Flames want to retain Russell. He's really not very good defensively at all. I suppose Treliving and Hartley know more than I do but then again they decided it was a good idea to bring back Ramo at over $3 million. I would hope that Wideman's salary is prohibitive to a trade and Russell is the guy that is moved as I feel this would save the organization from making a bad move and locking the guy up long term.

They also wanted to re-sign Glencross. So I hope they are playing a game via the media to drive up price, but I get the sinking feeling they are not.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is a player actually really that good at defending if that's what "he ends up doing all the time"?

I think it depends. He could be really bad at puck retrieval, and/or skating or moving the puck out of the zone but still a really good defender with body and stick positioning and reads. Therefore when he gets a chance to move it out, he struggles and turns it over, thereby defending again. He still could be really good at defending.

I'd also add that he may further struggle with a system in which the C doesn't support the D very well and depends on the D getting the puck out themselves.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is a player actually really that good at defending if that's what "he ends up doing all the time"?

That's the joke.

I don't watch that many games due to the time zone difference, but he really stands out when I do. Feet are moving all the time, falling down, stick is everywhere, getting shot in the face/leg/stomach/behind, puck deflected back to corner, he goes after full speed, poke poke, hug hug, kick kick, fall down, flail a bit, back to center and block another shot - rinse and repeat. That is a pretty common shift for Kris Russell.

And sure he'd be better in a system where the C supports the D very well. Shea Weber would be a better D-man with Bergeron helping him out in the defensive zone for crying out loud

[Bourque's Twin]

What is trading Russell seriously going to do? I can't see the team responding well to that.

Wideman might be a trade option because of his age, but it all depends on the return. Now would be a horrible time to trade him when he's playing his worst.

We can't forget that these 2 guys were one of the best pairings in the NHL 6 months ago.

Trading them is not the solution. Getting better goaltending and certainly getting a better system seem like the solutions to me.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

What is trading Russell seriously going to do? I can't see the team responding well to that.

Wideman might be a trade option because of his age, but it all depends on the return. Now would be a horrible time to trade him when he's playing his worst.

We can't forget that these 2 guys were one of the best pairings in the NHL 6 months ago.

Trading them is not the solution. Getting better goaltending and certainly getting a better system seem like the solutions to me.

If we can get value for a defenceman that relies on the easiest zone starts and competition on the team to be effective (and I'm really not sure he's effective even in this situation), instead of making the mistake of signing him to a long-term deal, that's something I can get on board for.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

What is trading Russell seriously going to do? I can't see the team responding well to that.

Give us a piece that might be around when the team is ready to compete for the Cup.

I really don't care how the team responds if the deal makes sense long term.
That should be the focus not short term, right now deals.

[mennoknight]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

We can't forget that these 2 guys were one of the best pairings in the NHL 6 months ago.

This is precisely what we need to forget. They aren't now. They're not going to be again.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

What is trading Russell seriously going to do?

-Show a commitment to possession
-Add assets, especially top 6 forward or top 15-60 draft pick type assets that this team genuinely needs.
-Not tie up a future roster spot with a tough-to-move veteran contract (which extending Russell creates) when Hickey, Kulak, Culkin, Wotherspoon etc can be a #4D. We already have Smid/Engelland filling that role. The more and more NHL teams buy in to possession stats, which are now even tracked on NHL.com, the lower and lower a Russell's value gets. Sell high(ish), don't get stuck selling low.

I can't see the team responding well to that.

They would be mentally fragile if they don't respond well to that. When the Kings traded Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter, they responded well to it by winning the Stanley Cup not collapsing.

We can't forget that these 2 guys were one of the best pairings in the NHL 6 months ago.

It was never one of the best pairings in the NHL. It wasn't as bad as it's been now, but it was always inherently flawed.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It was never one of the best pairings in the NHL. It wasn't as bad as it's been now, but it was always inherently flawed.

You lose any and all credibility with a completely erroneous statement like that.

Russell and Wideman played just shy of 30 minutes a game the last 19 games of the season both averaging a ppg and being huge plus players.

They carried the Flames to a 12-4-3 record where a 10-5-4 record means no playoffs .

They followed this up with the best playoff performance by a Calgary d-pair since Regher-Leopold 2004 in winning a playoff series against the Canucks.


The wheels may have come off this year but for a 25 game stretch at the end of last year they were the best pairing in the league unless of course winning doesn't count.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You lose any and all credibility with a completely erroneous statement like that.

Russell and Wideman played just shy of 30 minutes a game the last 19 games of the season both averaging a ppg and being huge plus players.

They carried the Flames to a 12-4-3 record where a 10-5-4 record means no playoffs .

They followed this up with the best playoff performance by a Calgary d-pair since Regher-Leopold 2004 in winning a playoff series against the Canucks.


The wheels may have come off this year but for a 25 game stretch at the end of last year they were the best pairing in the league unless of course winning doesn't count.

I'm not super sure why you can confidently say they were the best pairing in the league. Where are the comparisons? How was Weber's pairing? Karlsson's? Keith's?

They had a strong finish to the year, but just as he claims they aren't the best without any facts, you can't claim they were the best without proving it through proper comparisons.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'm not super sure why you can confidently say they were the best pairing in the league. Where are the comparisons? How was Weber's pairing? Karlsson's? Keith's?



They had a strong finish to the year, but just as he claims they aren't the best without any facts, you can't claim they were the best without proving it through proper comparisons.

Semantics. They were excellent down the stretch at both ends of the rink, how could you argue that?

[BlackWallStreet]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

What is trading Russell seriously going to do? I can't see the team responding well to that.

Wideman might be a trade option because of his age, but it all depends on the return. Now would be a horrible time to trade him when he's playing his worst.

We can't forget that these 2 guys were one of the best pairings in the NHL 6 months ago.

Trading them is not the solution. Getting better goaltending and certainly getting a better system seem like the solutions to me.

what he said ^

[adc]

Originally Posted by heep223

Semantics. They were excellent down the stretch at both ends of the rink, how could you argue that?

Because people watch the games and can see that they weren't excellent in their own zone.

They were better than they had been at any point in their careers and better than anyone would have expected but excellent at both ends of the rink and best pairing in the league are pretty big exaggerations from what I saw.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by adc

Because people watch the games and can see that they weren't excellent in their own zone.

They were better than they had been at any point in their careers and better than anyone would have expected but excellent at both ends of the rink and best pairing in the league are pretty big exaggerations from what I saw.

I watched the games and I disagree with bolded. You can't use your own opinion to "prove" your own opinion, so to speak.

I agree that saying they were the best pair in the league is an exaggeration.

Since early Feb '15, down the stretch:

Wideman 28gp 27pts +6 Avg TOI 26:28
Russell 28gp 15pts +9 Ave TOI 25:27

And keep in mind this was against the top players from the other team. They were excellent and a huge part of why the team made the playoffs even after Gio went down.

[Sylvanfan]

I did vote Wideman, but I absolutely could see the logic in moving Kris Russel. Fact is that Wideman's deal still expires next year, so with Giordano, Hamilton, and Brodie locked down long term, perhaps it makes sense to move Russel sometime this season, and let Wideman move on the next one from an organizational planning perspective. The young players these days are so good that having flexibility to bring them in is something you need to plan for.

[Split98]

Going with Wideman largely due to next years cap situation.

That being said, a package that is only done with Russell and boosts us offensively I green light right away -- but the opening talks start with Wideman I hope.

[CliffFletcher]

Russell now.

Wideman next season.

[genetic_phreek]

Now that Byron is gone and Raymond hasn't been playing consistently, the new whipping boy title has gone to Kris Russell. He hasn't been as great this season but at this point with 10 games completed, the team as a whole has been terrible.

With that being said, I'd say trade Wideman due to his salary.

[Moneyhands23]

Russell now! Wideman before the start of next season