Oct 2015 Alberta Budget Discussion

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I'm glad we are in a recession with a huge deficit budget so the NDP won't have the money to see this through. Wasting some millions on some reviews or studies is the worse they can do, I hope.

Has anything in this just released budget led you to believe that the NDP sees a lack of money as an issue? They'll just change the law again to allow us to borrow up to 20% of GDP.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Has anything in this just released budget led you to believe that the NDP sees a lack of money as an issue? They'll just change the law again to allow us to borrow up to 20% of GDP.

i thought it was 15, but to put it into perspective, the NDP were patting themselves on the back for this "Limit" on borrowing until you consider that this biggest borrowing spree in this province as at most 4% of the GDP.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

i thought it was 15, but to put it into perspective, the NDP were patting themselves on the back for this "Limit" on borrowing until you consider that this biggest borrowing spree in this province as at most 4% of the GDP.

It was 10% under the PCs. Notley upped it to 15%. But like any other psychological barrier, once you break one, it becomes easier to break the next. There's no reason to think this government would ever hold the line on accumulation of debt.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Defending a position using the "Conservative mismanagement" argument makes for a mighty flimsy shield when the NDP are intent on mismanaging it in exactly the same fashion.

Really? The NDP have already said they will invest in long term care spaces, which is one of the major issues with high costs hitting hospitals. The Conservatives made short sighted cuts to peripheral services that have ended up increasing health care costs. That and the Superboard, along with consolidation if EMS dispatch has increased costs and decreased quality of services.

I am hopeful the NDP are going to look smartly at how peripheral healthcare spending can decrease overall costs by removing pressure on our hospitals. The Conservatives thought cutting spending was going to save money, and it has had the opposite effect by funneling every sick person into an expensive hospital bed when they don't need to be there. That's what I meant by "Conservative mismanagement".

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by resolute 14

they'll just change the law again to allow us to borrow up to ∞ of gdp.

fyp.

[CliffFletcher]

Actually, recessions are when we should build this stuff. Flattens the employment/unemployment cycle, and more importantly, labour and materials cost much less. When government takes on big infrastructure projects when the economy is humming, all it does is drive up costs for everybody, including the private sector.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Healthcare and emergency services should be publicly funded but transit and infrastructure could be more of a private system so long as taxes are highly reduced. The coquiholla did it.

Do you know how much it would cost to take the train or drive your car if the transport system was privatised? It won't be just a little bit more expensive, our transport systems are massively subsidized.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Addick

Do you know how much it would cost to take the train or drive your car if the transport system was privatised? It won't be just a little bit more expensive, our transport systems are massively subsidized.

And why is that? Why is it massively subsidized? Why isn't the taxi service subsidized or airlines which in some cases should be considered a necessity of life?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by peter12

Obviously a great time to be a transportation consultant. Job creation!

What you need is a monorail.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It was 10% under the PCs. Notley upped it to 15%. But like any other psychological barrier, once you break one, it becomes easier to break the next. There's no reason to think this government would ever hold the line on accumulation of debt.

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, this is political fluff. Take a look at the US debt ceiling, they just raise it every time they need to. It's just so the NDP can point to that and say "look we're not going to spend like crazy, there's a cap" in response to the huge deficits. Means nothing.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I would rather see the introduction of user fee in some services like health care. Once people have to pay, people will use the services judicially and demand improved quality of service at the same time.

Yeah, for the people who can afford it. Jesus. How much of a complete sociopath do you have to be to be a libertarian? I mean utopian socialism is certainly just as naive and ridiculous, but at least it's not cruel.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, for the people who can afford it. Jesus. How much of a complete sociopath do you have to be to be a libertarian? I mean utopian socialism is certainly just as naive and ridiculous, but at least it's not cruel.

Well basic user-fees isnt an insane concept. We used to have to pay a few hundred bucks a year up until fairly recently.

And yes, there were exceptions for families with low income. I cant tell you how many times AHS came calling for tax returns to qualify low-income families.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It was 10% under the PCs. Notley upped it to 15%. But like any other psychological barrier, once you break one, it becomes easier to break the next. There's no reason to think this government would ever hold the line on accumulation of debt.

Consider there is near enough $20b in debt already. Another $35 in the capital plan. And at least $10 more in the budget - assuming no new spending for 3 years and oil rebounds.

What's our gdp? 350? Yeah pretty sure 15% won't hold.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well basic user-fees isnt an insane concept. We used to have to pay a few hundred bucks a year up until fairly recently.

The old health care premium wasn't a user fee but just another tax as you don't get to choose to pay it or not and it was a flat fee that didn't change with usage.

[Tron_fdc]

How does someone host a pdf online? I got an email from the ARHCA (Alberta Roadbuilding and Heavy Construction Association) this AM that is a pretty good read in regards to infrastructure spending. I can't figure out how to get it online for viewing though?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Really? The NDP have already said they will invest in long term care spaces, which is one of the major issues with high costs hitting hospitals. The Conservatives made short sighted cuts to peripheral services that have ended up increasing health care costs. That and the Superboard, along with consolidation if EMS dispatch has increased costs and decreased quality of services.

I am hopeful the NDP are going to look smartly at how peripheral healthcare spending can decrease overall costs by removing pressure on our hospitals. The Conservatives thought cutting spending was going to save money, and it has had the opposite effect by funneling every sick person into an expensive hospital bed when they don't need to be there. That's what I meant by "Conservative mismanagement".

The Prentice PCs were already investing in long term care spaces - though too slowly for everyone on both the Wildrose and NDP side of the spectrum. As to the rest, you can be "hopeful", but unless I missed it, Notley hasn't proposed many changes to the overall operation of AHS - though it should be noted that Prentice had already announced an intention to decentralize it again, so everything was changing back anyway.

For me, I look at what the NDP is doing as a case of "throw money at it and hope it gets better", and that is largely what the PCs did. There doesn't seem to be any desire to look at how AHS is structured. Why does it need 64 positions at the VP level or close equivalent? Why do we actually have a job called "Senior Provincial Director of Decision Making"? And how bloody bloated is middle management if AHS is that top heavy?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That's pretty much all going to change if Trudeau gets his way. Well not the mismanagement part. The BC Liberals have shown a tremendous ability to mismanage just about everything.

Almost as bad as the NDP government that preceded them.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Almost as bad as the NDP government that preceded them.

And So Creds before that. The list of provincial governments in B.C. is pretty much an entire history of abject failures a racists.

[CliffFletcher]

Health care user fees are worth considering. Most countries in Europe, including Sweden and Denmark, have them. Doctors will tell you emergency rooms have frequent visitors, people who are hypochondriacs or just lonely, who take up a lot of their time. Treating Mrs. Jones for the third time in a month for her stomach pains and feelings of exhaustion is a substantial drag on the system.

What you don't want is for the fees to deter people from needed care at an early stage and create a situation where they need more acute care later. It's a tricky balance.

[Harry Lime]

How about a three strike policy? A doctor can mark a patients record with visits that could be considered not worthy of a doctor's attention, and after three such visits in a year the patient must pay a user fee for anything beyond that. That allows for one yearly checkup, and two stubbed toes. Children under 5 and seniors over 70 are exempt.

Would that eliminate the pointless overage? I've been in doctor's offices where there are forms for setting up monthly checkups. How do we stop this sort of thing from draining our budget?