Evander Kane: "I asked for a trade every offseason in Winnipeg"

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by adc

I don't need to pretend anything I know it didn't which is why you can't come up with examples.

You have a avatar of trump and not even in a sitatrical way. We already know you dont think racicism is real and its just they arent sending there best but believe some might be o.k.

Even if you are using it to be satirical its in bad taste. Its not ok to use a support trump photo especially when trump suppoters are going around beating up Latinos right now because of him .


Sorry about the rant but the sports media did at one point try to portray P.K. was acting like a "thug" . They were not direct about it but the way the carefully minced there words thwy were clearly alluding to that point.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by adc

Sounds a lot like what those racists said about Alex Ovechkin.

Racists???? You mean white guys critical of another white man? Russian is not a" race" . Russian is a form of citizenship you hold. Just like saying muslim is a race when it's not .

I believe I know who you are already and if the mods could do us a favour and just ban him right now we will save alot of time.

This is formerly poster "Quincey egg" freshly banned and reincarnated. I know we aren't suppose to do this and I'll take the heat that comes with it. Just look at the facts tho.

Same writing style, a trump hard on and no racism towards blacks

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This is also such crap.

If you are an owner/president/GM/coach/trainer do you honestly care one tiny bit what race a player is? Like at all? If the racism was existent, wouldn't a guy like Iggy, Kane or Subban been passed over in the draft?

PK was picked 43rd and Iginla 11th, so in retrospect it's pretty clear both were undervalued. Of course this happens all the time with players anyway so it doesn't really mean anything, but it's clearly possible that underlying some racist attitudes could have been in play there.

Kane on the other hand was picked 4th behind Tavares, Hedman and Duchene, which seems about right to me.

As for the possibility that owners/presidents/GM's/coaches/trainers don't care about race, let's talk about NFL quarterbacks. Obviously it's unlikely that anybody would consciously pick an inferior white QB over a black one, considering how crucial that position is and how much money is tied to an NFL teams success. But it's also pretty obvious there's no rational reason why it has traditionally been a spot for the white guy.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Itse

PK was picked 43rd and Iginla 11th, so in retrospect it's pretty clear both were undervalued. Of course this happens all the time with players anyway so it doesn't really mean anything, but it's clearly possible that underlying some racist attitudes could have been in play there.

Kane on the other hand was picked 4th behind Tavares, Hedman and Duchene, which seems about right to me.

As for the possibility that owners/presidents/GM's/coaches/trainers don't care about race, let's talk about NFL quarterbacks. Obviously it's unlikely that anybody would consciously pick an inferior white QB over a black one, considering how crucial that position is and how much money is tied to an NFL teams success. But it's also pretty obvious there's no rational reason why it has traditionally been a spot for the white guy.

Iginla was a late bloomer, no one anywhere thought he would ever become close to as good as he became. I really don't think race played into Iginla's draft ranking at all. His draft+1 season was amazing but in his draft year, he was basically a depth player on an amazing team. The potential was there, but most didn't see more than a second or third line guy in him, if all went right. If scouts honestly thought he had the potential to be a 40-50 goal scorer in the NHL, they wouldn't have cared if he was green with purple polka dots, he would've went 1st overall, or at least top 3.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Iginla was a late bloomer, no one anywhere thought he would ever become close to as good as he became. I really don't think race played into Iginla's draft ranking at all. His draft+1 season was amazing but in his draft year, he was basically a depth player on an amazing team. The potential was there, but most didn't see more than a second or third line guy in him, if all went right. If scouts honestly thought he had the potential to be a 40-50 goal scorer in the NHL, they wouldn't have cared if he was green with purple polka dots, he would've went 1st overall, or at least top 3.

I guess you could try to argue that maybe his race played into him being a depth player and the way he was perceived by scouts, but really I wouldn't know enough to even go there. Doesn't really matter either way, as the sample we're talking about is so ridiculously small.

I think the football QB thing makes a better case that even at the highest levels of professional sports where there's enough money in play to trump any known biases, there can still be biases. (Then again the QB is kind of a unique position in sports.)

As for race issues, generally where it most comes into play is when people are not being nice and polite. Same as with gender really. White guy is authoritative, a white woman is bossy, a black guy is pushy, a black woman is crazy. Even though they objectively speaking all said/did the exact same things, people see the exact same things differently. People are on average more ready to accept bad behaviour from a young white guy than a young black guy.

Not that I really care. Evander Kane can afford to get some PR training and hire a professional to handle his image if he really cares that much. Subban is a perfect example that it's perfectly possible for a black athlete to overcome image issues.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Genetically it's more than skin deep as evidenced by the DNA testing on Jamaicans and Usain Bolt. That doesn't mean we aren't the same race. Genetic variation is ideal for the survival of the species, rallying against it is counter intuitive.

Elite sprinters like Bolt and his Jamaican teammates can trace their ancestry to western and central Africa whose body types and physiology have been uniquely shaped by thousands of years of evolution to run fast for whatever reason. I would be shocked to see any difference in a Jamaican's DNA to an African's DNA.

When it comes to athletics the gene pool means everything, Asians and Whites mostly dominate water sports, Northern Europeans usually dominate strength events and Blacks who trace their ancestry to South/Central/Western Africa had always dominated the speed events.

When people stop being racist and hateful about the differences and understand it's evolutional and you are a product of where your direct ancestors came from... the planet will be a better place.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by T@T

Elite sprinters like Bolt and his Jamaican teammates can trace their ancestry to western and central Africa whose body types and physiology have been uniquely shaped by thousands of years of evolution to run fast for whatever reason. I would be shocked to see any difference in a Jamaican's DNA to an African's DNA.

When it comes to athletics the gene pool means everything, Asians and Whites mostly dominate water sports, Northern Europeans usually dominate strength events and Blacks who trace their ancestry to South/Central/Western Africa had always dominated the speed events.

When people stop being racist and hateful about the differences and understand it's evolutional and you are a product of where your direct ancestors came from... the planet will be a better place.

they've measured the length of the twitch reflex in the muscle fibres of people from different regions... Kenyans, who tend to dominate long distance running, have the longest twitch reflex, so their energy transfer is more efficient, hence, they can travel longer distances with the same amount of energy applied... very fascinating (to me, at least).

I agree with your sentiment. I don't think the "we're all equal" serves anyone... I prefer a higher perspective (in my opinion) where the differences are celebrated.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by fleury

Seriously? You think I'm a racist because I pointed out something that was an obvious parallel of what people relate his persona to?

No, I am criticizing you for playing into stereotypes at the same time you criticize others for pretty much the same thing. Also, I still don't believe you are correct in arguing there is an "obvious parallel" between Kane's attitude and that of a rapper.

And I didn't say that he's disliked because of his race. I think most would say he's an idiot because of how he acts. What I'm saying is he's likely sticking out more because of his race. Right or wrong, it's likely true. Oh, and I'm a minority so ease up on the pointing fingers if you haven't experienced it directed at you at points in your life.

He's sticking out to you more because of his race. He's sticking out to me because he is entitled and self-centred.

[Huntingwhale]

[Hackey]

Whether or not racist people exist in organizations to the extent of not drafting players is probably unlikely. There are way too many people involved in that process and no one likely is going to want be the guy putting up that fight. Plus most people want to win. You might dislike black guys for example but you might prefer your job more. Most people probably wouldn't want their peers knowing unless their peers felt the same or even worse the story getting out to the media. I think hockey is filled with quality people so I don't see it as a big issue. The bad apples keep their hate quiet. Non-white players aren't exactly common in the NHL either so the opportunity for it happening is pretty low to begin with. I don't think drafting is the litmus test for whether or not racism exists though. That's pretty extreme.

We have plenty of examples that it does though and if guys like Subban and Kane say it does exist then personally I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt more so than some random person who isn't them or lived their life. If you asked Kevin Weekes or Wayne Simmonds they would probably agree. Iggy to me isn't exactly the best example. Call it whatever you want but Iggy is very regular, very vanilla, very PC, tow the line. Despite that Im sure if you were talking to Iggy off the record he would have stories. So when guys like Kane do the money phone some wont care, some will think hes an idiot for it, some will be pissed because he's black. Just because some here dislike him for his actions doesn't mean others don't dislike him because of his race. And as I've said before the easiest way to be racist under the radar is to dislike someone because of "this or that" not because their black. Someone might have no issue with a person but then something comes up they dislike and all of a sudden their race might add to that dislike. Not trying to point the finger at anyone here for that but to not realize that possiblity would be kind of naive in my opinion.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Whether or not racist people exist in organizations to the extent of not drafting players is probably unlikely. There are way too many people involved in that process and no one likely is going to want be the guy putting up that fight. Plus most people want to win. You might dislike black guys for example but you might prefer your job more. Most people probably wouldn't want their peers knowing unless their peers felt the same or even worse the story getting out to the media. I think hockey is filled with quality people so I don't see it as a big issue. The bad apples keep their hate quiet. Non-white players aren't exactly common in the NHL either so the opportunity for it happening is pretty low to begin with. I don't think drafting is the litmus test for whether or not racism exists though. That's pretty extreme.

We have plenty of examples that it does though and if guys like Subban and Kane say it does exist then personally I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt more so than some random person who isn't them or lived their life. If you asked Kevin Weekes or Wayne Simmonds they would probably agree. Iggy to me isn't exactly the best example. Call it whatever you want but Iggy is very regular, very vanilla, very PC, tow the line. Despite that Im sure if you were talking to Iggy off the record he would have stories. So when guys like Kane do the money phone some wont care, some will think hes an idiot for it, some will be pissed because he's black. Just because some here dislike him for his actions doesn't mean others don't dislike him because of his race. And as I've said before the easiest way to be racist under the radar is to dislike someone because of "this or that" not because their black. Someone might have no issue with a person but then something comes up they dislike and all of a sudden their race might add to that dislike. Not trying to point the finger at anyone here for that but to not realize that possiblity would be kind of naive in my opinion.

Amazing argument. You just plug your ears and insist people are racist for not liking Kane. Really stellar stuff.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Racists???? You mean white guys critical of another white man? Russian is not a" race" . Russian is a form of citizenship you hold. Just like saying muslim is a race when it's not .

I believe I know who you are already and if the mods could do us a favour and just ban him right now we will save alot of time.

This is formerly poster "Quincey egg" freshly banned and reincarnated. I know we aren't suppose to do this and I'll take the heat that comes with it. Just look at the facts tho.

Same writing style, a trump hard on and no racism towards blacks

Just being devil's advocate, but if I'm white and I proudly proclaim I hate all non protestant whites (like Neo Nazis in America) I am pretty racist. There is no other term.

Or if I'm a white German for instance and I proclaim I hate white Americans, or white Russians, or white Romanians, etc, that is racist my friend.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I agree with most of what your saying, however, it's easy to sit here as a white guy on an internet forum and say he's just playing the race card, we don't know what he was dealing with on the day to day. As Hackey pointed out racism can be very subtle and hard to notice unless your the one being discriminated upon.

I will never know what it's like to be discriminated against for my race. That doesn't mean I have to put up with a black person assuming I'm racist just because I'm white and don't like him because he's a dickhead. That, in itself, is racist. If he was really concerned with systemic racism in the NHL, there are plenty of better avenues to fight it. Being a dbag, and then just strutting through thinking everyone else is the problem (whether you think it's racism, stupidity, sexism, or any ism, doesn't matter) is delusional.

[Northendzone]

seems to me that kane is a pretty polarizing figure and it seems ahrd to like him, so perhaps because of this he heard some racasit type stuff that he may have not heard if he was more likeable.

i would think that at the end of the day, if you are a pro-hockey player living in Wpg and you are a likeable person, you will likely be given a lot of love by the fan base

anywyas, his comments will likely mean that the Sabers game in Wpg means that he will ahve a few reports in front of his locker looking for some sound bytes

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I will never know what it's like to be discriminated against for my race. That doesn't mean I have to put up with a black person assuming I'm racist just because I'm white and don't like him because he's a dickhead. That, in itself, is racist. If he was really concerned with systemic racism in the NHL, there are plenty of better avenues to fight it. Being a dbag, and then just strutting through thinking everyone else is the problem (whether you think it's racism, stupidity, sexism, or any ism, doesn't matter) is delusional.

I don't think anyone here is defending Kane or his actions. I'm just saying it's very dismissive of what happened to him in Winnapeg, when you assume "he's just playing the race card". I still think racism is wide spread in society, especially in a predominately white sport such as hockey.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I don't think anyone here is defending Kane or his actions. I'm just saying it's very dismissive of what happened to him in Winnapeg, when you assume "he's just playing the race card". I still think racism is wide spread in society, especially in a predominately white sport such as hockey.

He brings it up almost any chance he gets. When other black players have been asked about it (I recall both Simmonds and Iginla being asked questions about it) they say it's there, it's happened, but it's nothing systemic or pervasive. It's a select few idiots and they brush it off as such. I can't know how it feels to have that happen even once, but to apply that judgment to any white person is just as discriminatory as anything else, and just as wrong. If he really feels like it's a big enough problem that it's stopping him from becoming the player he can be, then he needs to battle it properly, and assuming there are no problems with himself and everyone else is racist is just not the way to do it.

No, we don't know what happened to him in Winnipeg, but we know that this excuse has come up again and again with him. It just can't be that everyone who has a problem with him is a racist.

[Illuminaughty]

I think Kane does have a penchant for controversy, maybe his actions were a way for him to act out, draw negative attention to Jets so they would trade him. Maybe he is trolling people, so he can cry racism. But maybe there is something else going on.

[Coach]

I don't think it's anything he's doing on purpose. I think it's just part of his personality, a very unappealing part. Can you imagine having a buddy or coworker and anytime you disagreed with them they called you a racist? I doubt that person would have many friends for long, which they would again blame on racism. He's using it as an excuse to act like a dick. Whether he's been the victim of racism or not is kind of beside the point, it's not an excuse to be a dick, and not an excuse to apply that view to everyone who's not in your corner. And if you're using it that way, then of course your relationships will quickly disappear, whether it's friends, colleagues, bosses, etc. Not many people are going to tolerate it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Whether or not racist people exist in organizations to the extent of not drafting players is probably unlikely. There are way too many people involved in that process and no one likely is going to want be the guy putting up that fight. Plus most people want to win. You might dislike black guys for example but you might prefer your job more. Most people probably wouldn't want their peers knowing unless their peers felt the same or even worse the story getting out to the media. I think hockey is filled with quality people so I don't see it as a big issue. The bad apples keep their hate quiet. Non-white players aren't exactly common in the NHL either so the opportunity for it happening is pretty low to begin with. I don't think drafting is the litmus test for whether or not racism exists though. That's pretty extreme.

We have plenty of examples that it does though and if guys like Subban and Kane say it does exist then personally I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt more so than some random person who isn't them or lived their life. If you asked Kevin Weekes or Wayne Simmonds they would probably agree. Iggy to me isn't exactly the best example. Call it whatever you want but Iggy is very regular, very vanilla, very PC, tow the line. Despite that Im sure if you were talking to Iggy off the record he would have stories. So when guys like Kane do the money phone some wont care, some will think hes an idiot for it, some will be pissed because he's black. Just because some here dislike him for his actions doesn't mean others don't dislike him because of his race. And as I've said before the easiest way to be racist under the radar is to dislike someone because of "this or that" not because their black. Someone might have no issue with a person but then something comes up they dislike and all of a sudden their race might add to that dislike. Not trying to point the finger at anyone here for that but to not realize that possiblity would be kind of naive in my opinion.

Whaddya know - I agree with a whole bunch of Hackey's post. Except it's "toe the line", not "tow". IMO any racism felt by the non-white guys in the NHL isn't because of management and probably not coaches either. It's more likely the subtle stuff - jokes in the locker room, comments by some fans or media, etc.

And the occasional overt stuff - the bananas chucked at Simmonds in Philly and at Weekes in Montreal. And giving some credence to what Kane says, according to some other pro athletes it's pretty bad in Manitoba.

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Amazing argument. You just plug your ears and insist people are racist for not liking Kane. Really stellar stuff.

He said some people dislike him because of what he does, others because of race.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Whaddya know - I agree with a whole bunch of Hackey's post. Except it's "toe the line", not "tow". IMO any racism felt by the non-white guys in the NHL isn't because of management and probably not coaches either. It's more likely the subtle stuff - jokes in the locker room, comments by some fans or media, etc.

And the occasional overt stuff - the bananas chucked at Simmonds in Philly and at Weekes in Montreal. And giving some credence to what Kane says, according to some other pro athletes it's pretty bad in Manitoba.

I've never actually heard this that Manitoba was any worse than other NA locales. Just curious, who and what was said?