Oct 2015 Alberta Budget Discussion

[Violator]

nm

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You also can't do the Norwegian model without setting up a crown corporation that automatically receives the majority of resources, which is not something that would ever fly in Alberta.

and this

Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP– almost 4x Hong Kong and nearly twice the US. VAT here is a whopping 25%. Personal income tax rates border 55%. Corporate profits tax ranges from 28% to as high as 78%

[GGG]

I really don't like going into debt for operating expenses. I'm okay with trading infrastructure deficits for cash deficits in non boom times. But operating expenses should be based on cash flow.

I'm disappointed, I really expected a more pragmatic ndp.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Is there any good reason for why we spend so much more on health care per capita than other provinces?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

It's the fault of the previous government that the Saudi's could manipulate the market and we were completely unprepared for it. We should have a war chest the size of the Saudi Royal family's. The fact that we don't is on the PC government ignoring Lougheed, and then squandering Klein's cuts.

We've had the boogeyman of an NDP government in charge since Klein stepped down, without any of the social benefits. What kind of a conservative government leaves us with no money at all? It's the point of their existence!

Well, thankfully the NDP is here to learn from the mistakes of the past. Oh, wait, doesn't look like it. They're just going to complain about how the PCs drove us off the cliff while they seem content to cut the brakes.

At least we can all be thankful that, while we wait for our next Klein to fix it all, that the current mess will be a bi-partisan effort.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Is there any good reason for why we spend so much more on health care per capita than other provinces?

As far as i understand, because wages in the private sector are generally higher in Alberta so the public sector follows. However, right now the private sector is losing jobs and cutting wages while the public sector is getting increases thanks to the ndp and strong public union support.

Also, generally the public sector pays about 4% more for the same type of job in the private sector.

Alberta had the second highest per capita healthcare spending after newfoundland. With the ndp promised one billion dollar increase we are probably now first. The focus should of been inefficiencies in the system instead of throwing money at it.

[RubberDuck]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Is there any good reason for why we spend so much more on health care per capita than other provinces?

Administration silly!

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/...t-previous.pdf

Yup, I'm sure we need 40+pages of directors and VP's to administrate this provinces health care system.

Looks pretty efficient to me...

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But how the government works is that they would hire the 5 janitors to do 1 hour of work, there would be 3 direct supervisors for those Janitors, and then those 3 supervisors would have 2 managers, 1 time card approver, 3 people reviewing their time cards 1 person to generate their pay, a logistics expert to order their supplies, 2 warehouse people to unload it and stock the shelves, 3 middle managers to surpervise that 15 person department, 4 consultants to make sure they're using the right mops, and a board to run them, there would also be a decidicated HR person to make sure that they're all getting long, and a HR consultant to make sure that they're getting enough work life balance.


And the janitors would still take 3 hours to do 1 hours worth of cleaning.

So that 2 hours of work would cost about $17 million bucks a year to do that one hour worth or work and we'd need 4 trucks and a building to house that department.

As well after they left for the day we'd probably need an inspector and a exterminator to kill the coachroaches that were feasting on the dirty floor.

Obviously this is exaggerated but the average person would be shocked if they saw the way government operates, if they were a business they would be bankrupt in no time. If someone had the backbone to get into it we could easily balance the budget just by cutting out all the wasted money from politically correct garbage and total ineptitude or indifference on the part of the government and public sector workers. Actually that was kind of harsh, most of them mean well but have no appetite to fight the system or bite the hand that feeds them. Combine that with a roll back on the big unions by 10%, where they should be, and we'd be in good shape instead of mortgaging the future of our grandchildren.

[GGG]

The average person would also be shocked how a pre boom oil company operated

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by nik-

You also can't do the Norwegian model when you're a province and not the state. Also, Alberta doesn't own a StatOil equivalent. There's no doing the Norwegian model.

We could have something approximating the Norwegian model if we ran our government strictly off the money generated by corporate tax, income tax, and sales tax - you know, the way everywhere else in the world does - and put all royalty revenues in a sovereign wealth fund that couldn't be touched for 30 years.

But that would require Alberta citizens to recognize some correlation between what they personally pay in taxes and the public services they expect to receive in return.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GGG

The average person would also be shocked how a pre boom oil company operated

Not only that, but anyone who tries to compare how a government operates with how a business operates clearly doesn't understand the purpose of government.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not only that, but anyone who tries to compare how a government operates with how a business operates clearly doesn't understand the purpose of government.

What a vague and difficult to understand statement. Can you explain?

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by GGG

The average person would also be shocked how a pre boom oil company operated

The difference is oil companies are not accountable to the taxpayer.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We could have something approximating the Norwegian model if we ran our government strictly off the money generated by corporate tax, income tax, and sales tax - you know, the way everywhere else in the world does - and put all royalty revenues in a sovereign wealth fund that couldn't be touched for 30 years.

But that would require Alberta citizens to recognize some correlation between what they personally pay in taxes and the public services they expect to receive in return.

If i wanted a Norwegian model i'd move to Norway. We're not Norway, we're Alberta.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

This was about as restrained as an NDP budget is going to get I think.

The spending increases won't even cover union wage hikes, and there is new spending on top. The net is they must be 'finding efficiencies' as well.

The borrowing is about as expected - less than I thought even. Quick math says we'll be 70b in debt when they are done? If they continue to toe this line and their projections hold. Doubtful but we'll see.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

This was about as restrained as an NDP budget is going to get I think.

The spending increases won't even cover union wage hikes, and there is new spending on top. The net is they must be 'finding efficiencies' as well.

The borrowing is about as expected - less than I thought even. Quick math says we'll be 70b in debt when they are done? If they continue to toe this line and their projections hold. Doubtful but we'll see.

Don't worry. We've raised corporate buisness taxes which will generate 1 billion/year in revenue to cover some of that 70 billion. Might have a few layoffs and higher unemployment because of it though. I guess that means more people on employment insurance taking from the government and paying less income tax.

Sounds like a really good system the ndp is bringing in. Really solid economics. I'm proud to say i didn't vote for this.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not only that, but anyone who tries to compare how a government operates with how a business operates clearly doesn't understand the purpose of government.

I'm with you to an extent that Government's shouldn't necessarily be expected to run like a business. That being said, Government departments should mimic business. It isn't unreasonable to expect Government departments and sectors to provide the best services for optimal costs.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Let's get down to the nub of this thing - do I get $5,000 if I hire a butler and do I have to pay him $15/hour?

High probability you will get the $5,000 if you let your butler become unionized, even just by himself is fine.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by GGG

I really expected a more pragmatic ndp.

Have you ignored the entirety of Canada's history up to this point? There's no such thing.

[Johnny199r]

Everyone here just ripping gov't workers to shreds. I've worked for gov't and the private sector, there are plenty of idiots in both the public and private sector, often times both overpaid.