2015 ALCS Toronto Blue Jays VS Kansas City Royals

[GirlySports]

or just get better umps, everyone gets Jeff Nelsoned at some point

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

LOL, get over yourself. I've forgotten more about baseball than you'll ever know. You probably just started watching this year like 90% of the rest of the fans (not that there's anything wrong with that, generally). I suffered for 20 years and that trade was like a kick in the groin at the time, and now. Especially with how much AA had been building up the farm to that point, it was devastating to see our two best prospects punted for a 4 billion year old knuckle baller, even if he did just win the Cy Young.



Anyone who thinks the Jays couldn't have had the season they had without RA Dickey knows less about baseball than my 8 year old son. Top 3 pitchers are very hard to acquire, depth starters are not and Dickey is depth starter. He pitched 6 freaking innings during the postseason, that really shows you the value the Blue Jays see in him.



He cost the Jays so many times in the first half, it was unbearable. It is not simply washed out by good/acceptable performances in the second half. It's like saying Hiller is a good goalie because he makes some highlight reel saves and has decent stats. He's still inconsistent, lets in soft goals and is generally useless in a key role on a contender, just like 6 inning Dickey.



Dickey was brought in to be an ace and he ended up a 3/4. Snydergaard will be an ace and d'Arnaud is a stud. It was a bad trade. End of story. Dickey is not irreplaceable. End of story. Pointing these things out is just pointing these things out, they are FACTS. No need to get uspet with facts, even if the Jays are winning.



Dickey was amazing with the Mets, flat out amazing. But the AL East is a different story and so is the Rogers Center. I never bought into the hype of that trade or the Marlins trade because I actually follow baseball every year, not just when the Jays are good. Those were bad trades (the Marlins trade was less bad), even though pieces from those trades helped the team win this year. These aren't mutually exclusive concepts, I don't see why anyone could possibly be upset by them. You can make a bad trade that helps you now but hurts you more down the road.



Since he's been in Toronto, Dickey's been good/okay at times, horrid at others, and great a very, very small percentage of the time. Altogether, he's been incredibly inconsistent, more so than any other pitcher I've seen this side of Kelvim Escobar. Inconsistency is the last thing you want in a starter, I can't believe I would even have to defend that, it's just a given. Average all the time is better than 'lights out or lit up'. I really doubt they exercise his option, there are far better ways to spend $12 million dollars.



Before you go there, yes you were directing that post at me.

Curious how you feel about this year's trades. They seemed to work out pretty well but AA give up a lot of young pitchers.

[kmart]

Thought Cecil would've been the difference in this series. Esepcially with Hosmer being a lefty.

In game one there was a moment when we were up 3-0 and Hosmer ,a lefty, came up to the plate with two men, likely wouldn't been Cecil's spot to come in and shut down the middle of the Royals order. Instead Hosmer hits for 2 RBIs.

In the last game they had one man on with Hosmer coming to the plate in the bottom of the eighth and he hit a single that allowed Cain to come to the plate. Again likely a spot for Cecil to come in and shut down Hosmer.

The left handed hitters on both the Rangers and the Royals made a huge difference, the fact that Cecil was unavaliable really hurt the team at years end. I'm guessing there wouldn't have at least been a game 7 with Cecil available.

[kmart]

If the ump admitted he got a call wrong on the Bautista strike, the ump that called game 6, should also come out on the Revere and Navaro and admit that those were incorrect calls as well. They costed the team a chance at winning, and they need to be held accountable.

[Kidder]

I wonder if they could implement something similar to hawk-eye in tennis. How accurate are those pitch trackers they show during games?

Batter or pitcher could call for it on a disagreed call. A few seconds later the pitch pops up on the screen, showing a strike zone, the path of the ball, and the exact spot it crosses the plate.

It's like a 10 second delay, and it doesn't detract at all from the flow in tennis. Huge in cutting down augments with the chair umpire too.

Make it happen. And give me 10 million for my idea.

[getbak]

I believe Hawk-eye already has (or is developing) a system for use in baseball. The only question is how many decades will it take before the very slow-to-act MLB supports it?

[browna]

Comments from Revere. The issue is the ump makes one bad call, and then, for sake of consistency, calls it again the next inning. (see bolded).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...ot-go-our-way/

Revere was even more upset about a called strike Davis received against him during his at-bat with runners on second and third in the ninth inning. According to Brooks Baseball, the pitch was a half foot outside of the strike zone, but was still called a strike, making Revere’s count 2-2 instead of 3-1.

That call came just a few pitches after Dioner Navarro watched almost the exact same pitch be called a strike to force him into an uncomfortable 1-2 count against Davis, one of the best closers in the game. According to Brooks Baseball, that pitch also was around a half foot off the plate.

"Terrible. It was terrible. It changes the whole game. Even on Navvy, it changes the whole game," said Revere, who also thought Davis was balking during the inning. "That should’ve put me in a 3-1 count. Then, he has to throw me a strike. But instead it’s 2-2 and that puts me in the hole, and now I’m battling. It was a terrible call. You can’t call that."

Revere said home plate umpire Jeff Nelson’s strike zone had been fine up until that point in the game, and that he didn’t see the pitches he and Navarro took being called strikes earlier in the game.

[calculoso]

Price was tipping his changeup?

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/24/roy...clinch-pennant

With their help, the Royals knew when David Price was throwing his changeup and when he would not throw to first base on a pickoff and where Jose Bautista would throw the baseball if he fielded it far to his left.

[JiriHrdina]

Hard to blame Revere - his point is right - he can't hit that pitch so it can't be a strike. You are gifting the pitcher the at-bat by calling that a strike. Hard not to be sour about that.

[flames_fan_down_under]

^^^ and as if Wade Davis needs the help of an expanded strike zone!

Watching the Navarro and Revere ABs made me absolutely seething with anger.

Still pissed about that one too.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Price was tipping his changeup?

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/24/roy...clinch-pennant

Scouted the blue jays since August. Quite the commitment from their team.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Curious how you feel about this year's trades. They seemed to work out pretty well but AA give up a lot of young pitchers.

When the rumors first started flying, I'll admit I was nervous. The team was an offensive juggernaut but the team had so many holes, I just didn't see how a trade or two would significantly change things. LF, the bullpen and the rotation were below average to say the least and I just didn't see how adding one of the available aces would help us that much. I had no idea AA was going to make 4 or 5 separate deals to perfectly fill all those holes. Each trade perfectly addressed everything we needed, it was great to see. He gave up a lot of good prospects, Norris, Hoffman and Castro in particular, but the players we acquired were exactly what was needed so I had to applaud him for that. I think if even one of those deals doesn't go down, everything changes and we might not even make the playoffs. I still can't believe AA managed to pull all that off.

I will admit, when Tulowitzki was acquired I was not happy and I've always been a fan of his. I wanted the Jays to draft him back in day actually, when we drafted Rickey Romero instead. That was the first move he made and I obviously didn't know that the Price, Revere and Lowe trades were in the offing. I was happy to see Reyes go as he's been declining since before we ever got him but Tulowitzki wasn't the pitchers we so desperately needed. Basically I was hoping that if a guy like Hoffman had to go, that we would get pitching in return. The next day, we traded for all the pitching, and the rest is history.

I went from disagreeing with it to agreeing with it, primarily because I didn't think what AA did would even be possible. When he pulled it off, I honestly couldn't believe it, they were pretty much video game trades. I doubt we ever see something like that again (with the Jays anyway).

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by JayP

MLB batter's OPS in 3-1 counts - 1.050
MLB batters OPS in 2-2 counts - .585

One bad call can completely submarine an entire at bat - the numbers change so drastically. The Jays had it happen back to back with the season on the line. It gets magnified when you facing the best closer in the league too. And this doesn't factor in that you have expand the zone to compensate for the brutal calls. Navaro got the same pitch with 2 strikes - there's no way he hacks at that without the ump calling it on him the pitch before.

I pine for the day when balls and strikes are called by technology.

[vennegoor of hesselink]

[vennegoor of hesselink]

double post

[browna]

Originally Posted by bomber317

Scouted the blue jays since August. Quite the commitment from their team.

Verducci isn't breaking any ground with that article. He may be bringing it more to light (and he'll likely pat himself on the back on TV for it), but that's it.

Every team has advance scouts in any sport, and same goes with baseball. In baseball, its not so much for watching players performance or strategy, that can all be seen on video. Its picking up trends and tells on players that the cameras don't catch.

Watching for tells happens in every game, in every series (playoff or reg season), and yes in advance scouting. Jays had guys I am sure, as most likely potential playoff teams did over the last couple months, watching each potential opponent. Verducci just got the guys the Royals have, to talk/boast about it.

[d_phaneuf]

I think he did with the stuff about the changeup, like he points out the Royals lefties were looking change up in situations where he had only thrown it 19 times all season

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

1-9 will be back (pending trades) but don't forget, we have Michael Saunders coming back, an upgrade on Ben Revere (don't let batting avg fool you, he's better) and Devon Travis coming back who is better than Goins. Not to mention Dalton Pompey knocking on the door and might just break it down.

When you can have Ben Revere/Dalton Pompey as your 4th/5th OF and Ryan Goins as your infield utility man, you are in really extremely good shape.

Lots of tools to help with trade if we need to shore up pitching.

Michael Saunders an upgrade on Revere? The same Michael Saunders that plays for the Jays? Michael Saunders is a career .230 hitter, a complete bandaid, and the very definition of a plug. I wasn't happy with the Jays acquiring even before he blew his knee out. Revere is a legitimate lead off man. Saunders is a bench player at best.

[GGG]

All this complaining about unlink is crap when two bunts win this game for them. Goins failure to get the bunt down cost them and bizarrely down 1 not bunting then using your remaining two outs with Bautista and Donaldson to try to win was the wrong call.

Generally hitting for powers and multiple runs is better than small ball but situationally when you need a run to stay alive, go out and get that run.

[JiriHrdina]

That may be true, but that doesn't mean that those two strike calls weren't brutal, and didn't impact dramatically how those ABs played out. Both can be true.