Corporate captains talk of merger to pursue NFL team for Toronto

[RedHot25]

Surprise, surprise...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../sports/Sports

Larry Tanenbaum, a minority shareholder of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., and Ted Rogers, chief executive officer of Rogers Communications Inc., the company that owns the Toronto Blue Jays, said yesterday that they hope to join forces to bring four-down football to Canada.

....
One of the major hurdles would be the construction of a new stadium to suit NFL needs.
"We're looking at all those issues for sure," Tanenbaum said. "Either a new stadium has to be in the works or modify the Rogers Centre."

[RedMan12]

So another Toronto team can represent Canada in a major sports league and fail miserably like the Blue Jays and Raptors.

[Mr.Coffee]

I'm sure when the NFL is looking at the next location, Toronto is a steady #2 behind Los Angeles.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

So another Toronto team can represent Canada in a major sports league and fail miserably like the Blue Jays and Raptors.

The jays have 2 more world series rings than a lot of teams.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm sure when the NFL is looking at the next location, Toronto is a steady #2 behind Los Angeles.

I'm not so sure, Tagliabo was pretty defiant in saying that Toronto was not getting an NFL team any time soon. The only reason they are making noise now is because they have the new commish.

We'll see.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm sure when the NFL is looking at the next location, Toronto is a steady #2 behind Los Angeles.

But, Howard Bloom just said on the Fan 960, that the NFL likes to expand by twos. So, LA, then TOR are the next most logical markets in his opinion. He thinks it is a certainty that the NFL will be in TOR within 5 years.

[Cheese]

actually I think LA then Mexico City might be 1-2 on the NFLs radar...Toronto might be 3 or 4 away.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm sure when the NFL is looking at the next location, Toronto is a steady #2 behind Los Angeles.

There is absolutely no way that is even close to true.

#1 Almost every new era NFL stadium is about 600 to 800 million, mostly, or at least in part funded by local and/or state gov't. 4 years ago the liberals floated out the idea of helping Cdn NHL teams with like a few million dollars that this Country was ready to riot to Ottawa

#2 The NFL needs a strong CFL. I don't want to type my hands off, but suffice to say they have anti-trust laws that do not work in their favor if the CFL goes away. A nfl team in Toronto blows the argos out of the water, no CFL team in Toronto and that is a huge nail in the CFL coffin

#3 Why would the NFL want to take on foreign exchange risk?

#4 The NFL loves their 32 team format ... they won't even expand for LA (they will only look at moving existing teams)

[The Goon]

Toronto would have to build a new stadium. The Rogers Centre doesn't have enough seats for the NFL minimum. It would be one gigantic money pit chasing the NFL.

After Los Angeles, the NFL is looking at San Antonio (larger population than Dallas).

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Toronto would have to build a new stadium. The Rogers Centre doesn't have enough seats for the NFL minimum. It would be one gigantic money pit chasing the NFL.

After Los Angeles, the NFL is looking at San Antonio (larger population than Dallas).

I would guess Toronto is 30th on their list.

It is behind LA, San Antonio, Portland, probably a third team in NY, Mexico City, Honolulu ... well you get the point.

[ken0042]

To me one of the issues I would be looking at is the lack of support that the current pro football team gets in Toronto. This season and last the Argos have been doing better; but it's still mostly under 30K people. Two years ago it wasn't much more than 20K people.

I realize that the CFL and NFL are two different things; but you still have to look at the numbers.

Of course the other factor; isn't there an agreement between the NFL and its teams not to build new teams too close? I'm sure Buffalo would have a say in Toronto getting a team; as there's thousands of people who go to Bills games.

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, I can't see the NFL wanting to get into the Toronto market anytime soon either. The current 32 team scheme just works so nicely with their 16 game schedule and 8 division set up. I would think they'd rather throw two more teams in the LA market before going into Toronto. I think 30th is a hyperbole, but they'd need to expand by about 8 teams before Toronto starts getting mentioned.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I would guess Toronto is 30th on their list.

It is behind LA, San Antonio, Portland, probably a third team in NY, Mexico City, Honolulu ... well you get the point.

Why Mexico City though? Do Mexicans love football or something? I don't really know... like just because a city has a ridiculous population shouldn't automatically rule it a contender should it?

[Sylvanfan]

I also think any team in Mexico City would have a tough time attracting players too. Basketball and Baseball players complain about customs and the different taxes with Canada, but could you imagine Mexico, and than the living conditions and language? They had a few games for MLB in Monterrey a few years back and it was mentioned that most players didn't exactly like it, and most wouldn't leave the Hotel. If the NFL was going to expand out of the USA I think Toronto would be the place. But there are still a few US markets that they can go into before they'll look outside.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Why Mexico City though? Do Mexicans love football or something? I don't really know... like just because a city has a ridiculous population shouldn't automatically rule it a contender should it?

They did have the that Cardinals game there last year. It sold out the place.

I'm not sure what are the TV Numbers for the NFL in Toronto? That might give a more accurate picture of the interest.

[troutman]

Toronto already has an NFL team: I think they are called the Bills.

No way TOR is "30th" on the list. TOR (S. Ont) has 10 million people, and there are 30 million people in Canada that might potentially support a TOR team (like they do with the Jays). SA and POR are not even close. Las Vegas is not an option. A stadium would be built quickly if the NFL wants to go to TOR.

I think the NFLPA would be reluctant to go to Mexico.

Howard Bloom:

http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/

Separating fact from fiction, here’s why the NFL’s 34th franchise will end up in Toronto:

• The NFL is going to expand to Los Angeles. Despite comments Paul Tagliabue made at Super Bowl XL, the NFL has always expanded by two. It makes no sense whatsoever to add only one franchise, the scheduling headaches are enormous. The NFL’s bye weekends allow every franchise to open and close their seasons at the same time. History dictates the NFL will continue to follow that thought process
  
  
• By moving into Canada the effect on the American television market would be nil, properly positioned a Toronto based NFL franchise could be marketed as a ‘national’ franchise. Canadians do not react well to Torontonians believing they are the center of Canada’s universe. The team could play a pre-season game in Montreal, Toronto or Edmonton and hold their training camp in the Ottawa area. In other words, build the teams’ brand as Canadian and be sensitive towards Canadians. A Toronto based franchise will be great for the business of the NFL and the franchise can be positioned as a national franchise. That would give the NFL access to more then 35 million people.
  
  
• There are those who believe American markets exist that could be home to an NFL expansion franchise other then Los Angeles. San Antonio’s Alamodome seats just over 58,000 for football and the good citizens of San Antonio won’t build a new football stadium. Orlando, don’t kid yourself. The Citrus Bowl isn’t big enough and Orlando has a tourist driven economy, a transient population has never been a good formula for supporting a football franchise. Hartford, that plan died on the vine when Robert Kraft used the interest the Connecticut city had in building a new stadium for the Patriots to leverage Hartford’s interest in keeping the team in Massachusetts. Las Vegas has long been interested in an NFL franchise – as long as Vegas sports books allow betting on football (more then $40 million a year), that will never happen.
  
  
• There has also been some discussion about two expansion franchises being added to the Los Angeles market. That doesn’t make any sense. There are enough concerns regarding the viability of the NFL in the Los Angeles market. Many believe the market is well served by the USC Trojans and the UCLA Bruins. Putting two franchises into a market doesn’t make any sense. That said, the NFL needs to put one franchise into the Los Angeles market and it needs to do that sooner rather then later. It will be challenging enough to make one franchise work in the Los Angeles market, two expansion teams is nonsensical.
  
  
• There have been talks about placing an expansion franchise in Mexico City. The Hispanic market is very important to the NFL but the security concerns a team in Latin America would represent to the players and their families it’s never going to take place. With all due respect, the NFL Players Association will never allow the league to expand to Mexico City without the league and/or the team assuming astronomical personal security for athlete and their each family member. Imagine Denzel Washington’s 2004 film “Man on Fire” in a real life situation with an NFL player or a member of his family.
  
  
• Ted Rogers represents the perfect ‘front man’ or lead owner the NFL loves. He offers the league the largest media platform any individual can provide the league in Canada. In Larry Tanenbaum, the NFL has a partner already fully vetted by the National Basketball Association. The NFL doesn’t like their owners to own other major sports franchises. The Toronto Blue Jays, Maple Leafs, Raptors and the expansion MLS franchises all closely linked to Rogers and Tanenbaum are owned by corporations and ownership groups, not by Rogers or Tanenbaum personally.
  
  
• Rogers understands content is king. An NFL franchise would represent untold content for his all-sports radio stations, cable sports network and other media platforms. When Rogers (the company) purchased the Blue Jays, Ted Rogers (the CEO) made it clear he believed a tremendous synergy could be created between the Blue Jays and every facet of the Rogers media empire.
  
  
• Tanenbaum has consistently shown a strong interest in playing with the ‘big boys’. When Larry Tanenbaum wants something he has the drive and determination to find a way to get it done.
  
  
• Paul Godfrey has proven on numerous occasions he has the ability to bring people and money together to create what he believes are world-class opportunities for Toronto. His biggest dream has always been an NFL franchise – he’s consumed by that goal, and with a proven track record he’ll find a way to get the deal done.
  
  
• The Rogers Centre can be retrofitted to meet NFL standards, increasing the seating capacity to around 70,000. There are logistics in getting this done, but none of them are insurmountable.
  
  
• The NFL can make whatever politically correct statements they believe they need to make about the future of the CFL and expanding into Canada, but at the end of the day Roger Goodell as the NFL’s eighth commissioner is responsible for creating new revenue sources for his 32 bosses, the 32 men who hired him. During Paul Tagliabue’s 17 years the NFL added four teams who collectively paid expansion fees totaling $1.54 billion. Two franchises each paying a $1 billion expansion fee will make Roger Goodell look like God to his 32 bosses. Goodell has every incentive to make it work.

[Resolute 14]

Howard Bloom is a tool.

Point 1 only suggests that the NFL *might* expand by two teams at some time. Nothing that makes Toronto a primary option.

Point 2: Neither Tannenbaum nor Rogers have shown much desire to market their existing teams as "national".

Point 3 applies to Toronto as well as those other markets.

Point 4 contracticts point 1. The NFL *will* expand to LA, yet the NFL is also concerned about the viability of LA?

Point 5 is speculation. The US also has security issues with Canada.

Point 6 is just ego feeding.

Points 7, 8 and 9 offer reasons why Rogers, Godfrey and Tannenbaum would do it. Not why the NFL would.

Point 10: The logistics of expanding Skydome to 70,000 would probably cost more than a new stadium.

Point 11: Irrelevent to Toronto. Two American cities would create just as much money. Regardless, he fails to address how more teams divides the TV and merchandising pots further. Short term gain at long term cost.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Point 2: Neither Tannenbaum nor Rogers have shown much desire to market their existing teams as "national".

In fairness, only recently have their teams been in a position to have them marketed nationally. For the most part, The Griz were taking away from the Raps and the Expos from the Jays.

Now, with the Raptors, its hard to market a team that has been such a trainwreck recently, and for the Jays, with the improvements to payroll and I think 38% rise in national viewership this season, they are doing their job.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by jonesy

The jays have 2 more world series rings than a lot of teams.

Regardless, if it weren't for Mr. Rogers holding that team afloat The Jays are gone. They always suck and their crowds are terrible.

Same for The Raptors, hell even the Argo's attendance sucks.

I actually can't wait for the day that The Jays fold or move, that way there won't be anymore Jays talk on Sportsnet/TSN like anyone really gives a damn.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

Regardless, if it weren't for Mr. Rogers holding that team afloat The Jays are gone. They always suck and their crowds are terrible.

Same for The Raptors, hell even the Argo's attendance sucks.

I actually can't wait for the day that The Jays fold or move, that way there won't be anymore Jays talk on Sportsnet/TSN like anyone really gives a damn.

The Jays were a profitable team last season AND their franchise value increased. You're simply incorrect Jordan.

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