GT: Federal Election

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

It was due to leaving Canada.

Do you feel comfortable expanding a bit? I'm genuinely curious about the CRA part of it.

[peter12]

Honestly though, direct transfers are way better than services INDIRECTLY provided through government. Not core services, but most social services would be better provided if redistribution funds weren't filtered through a bunch of bureaucrats who took their cut first.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Fire

Canada has 22 vacant senate seats at the moment. Does anyone know if Harper can still fill those seats with his picks or is it now too late?

It was too late when he dropped the writ and the caretaker government took over. The caretaker government's actions need to be routine, reversible by the new PM, or urgent and in the public's interests.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

I'm not convinced that you have either, but I understand that it is easier to criticize than it is to create.

It's pretty easy to criticize a terrible idea, true.

Your original assertion was that it's not "fair" to tax people based on their earnings, and instead this should be based on their net worth. Did you actually refute any of the points I made? No, you completely missed the sarcasm of "no one has ever thought of this before"; ignored the effect a net worth based tax would have on investment; went off on a completely irrelevant tangent to complain about income redistribution instead of responding to the issue of people with a paper net worth in the negative; and lastly brought up property tax - which has nothing to do with FEDERAL income tax, but is a municipal tax - in reference to nominal wealth in tied up in property.

Even if your idea was tenable, which it's really not, you haven't demonstrated in any way how it's BETTER than the current system. What specific advantage is there in this system? So some mythical ex-student making $200,000 gets a tax break? Is that an actual demographic or more like a ridiculous fantasy? I bet there's a lot more ex-students making $40 to 90K that could use the tax break the current system will soon give them. They probably also won't be crying any tears for the guy who is making more net than they are gross...

[starseed]

Originally Posted by starseed

It was too late when he dropped the writ and the caretaker government took over. The caretaker government's actions need to be routine, reversible by the new PM, or urgent and in the public's interests.

Apparently a Conservative leader tried this in 1896.

Although the results of the election were known on 24 June, Tupper clung to office, insisting that Laurier would be unable to form a government. When he sought to make a number of appointments, however, Lord Aberdeen refused to confirm them and on 8 July Tupper resigned, complaining that Aberdeen had acted unconstitutionally.

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/tupper_charles_14E.html

So I guess outside the caretaker government rules, it is possible for the GG to approve Harper's appointments, but it would be unprecedented, and would tarnish their reputations.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Fire

Canada has 22 vacant senate seats at the moment. Does anyone know if Harper can still fill those seats with his picks or is it now too late?

NM - starseed beat me to it.

[Azure]

Honestly it is amazing to me how the discussion around taxes is being driven. My Facebook was full of people whining about their taxes increasing and yet not a single one spent the time breaking down the actual 'facts.' I honestly don't get it. The only concern I really have about the Liberals is how they will deal with the oil and gas industry but even that is a non-starter. Change is good, and Canada needed something fresh. You'd think the government of Iran took over or something the way people complain.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Do you feel comfortable expanding a bit? I'm genuinely curious about the CRA part of it.

Basically when you cut ties with Canada to move abroad you're no longer subject to Canadian taxes. But to allow that, the Canadian government treats it as if you've sold all of your possessions (with a bunch of exceptions like most personal property, pensions, Canadian real estate, cash, etc.) and reacquired them at the same value. The result is that you owe for any capital gains that occur as a result of that.

It makes sense, since once you've cut ties with Canada you no longer file tax returns here. So if you built up hundreds of thousands of dollars in capital gains as a resident of Canada, moved abroad, and sold them afterwards the Canadian government wouldn't be able to tax those gains that occurred when you were a Canadian taxpayer, since you'd no longer be filing in Canada. So to get around that they require you to pay tax on the gains at the time of emigrating.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It makes sense, since once you've cut ties with Canada you no longer file tax returns here.

Your post is generally accurate, as I understand things, except for the quoted portion because I still have to file Canadian tax returns, due to having Canadian sourced income.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by jammies

It's pretty easy to criticize a terrible idea, true.

Your original assertion was that it's not "fair" to tax people based on their earnings, and instead this should be based on their net worth. Did you actually refute any of the points I made? No, you completely missed the sarcasm of "no one has ever thought of this before"; ignored the effect a net worth based tax would have on investment; went off on a completely irrelevant tangent to complain about income redistribution instead of responding to the issue of people with a paper net worth in the negative; and lastly brought up property tax - which has nothing to do with FEDERAL income tax, but is a municipal tax - in reference to nominal wealth in tied up in property.

Even if your idea was tenable, which it's really not, you haven't demonstrated in any way how it's BETTER than the current system. What specific advantage is there in this system? So some mythical ex-student making $200,000 gets a tax break? Is that an actual demographic or more like a ridiculous fantasy? I bet there's a lot more ex-students making $40 to 90K that could use the tax break the current system will soon give them. They probably also won't be crying any tears for the guy who is making more net than they are gross...

I'm a phone so cutting and pasting a line-by-line rebuttal is difficult, but I did rebut your points.

A net worth tax would have a similar effect on investment as an income tax does on career selection and earnings, except that a net worth tax would actually target the "rich."

A negative net worth would not escape taxation, due to the imposition and leving of a consumption tax.

And you were the one who brought up the real property issue; I merely explained that that matter can easily be dealt with and need not cause a net worth tax plan to be shelved.

Who benefits from a net worth tax system? Those who aren't "rich" but whose income leads others (and the government) to believe that they are. The truly wealthy are those that may benefit the most from living in a civilized and stable nation, and there needs to be a way to determine who those people are (and tax them accordingly).

And my hypo young-$200k-earner-with-lots-of-student-loan-debt isn't a terribly rare situation. I know of several people who fit that demographic.

[Azure]

What were the Liberal promises made in regards to health care reform? We can't just keep pouring endless money into a system that needs fixing.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Azure

Honestly it is amazing to me how the discussion around taxes is being driven. My Facebook was full of people whining about their taxes increasing and yet not a single one spent the time breaking down the actual 'facts.' I honestly don't get it. The only concern I really have about the Liberals is how they will deal with the oil and gas industry but even that is a non-starter. Change is good, and Canada needed something fresh. You'd think the government of Iran took over or something the way people complain.

We don't know enough about the 'facts' to be able to break it down. There were never any real details released in the Libs economic plan - so unless you believe Harper's numbers (which I don't)....
But I expect many people will pay a bit less and some people will pay more.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Who benefits from a net worth tax system? Those who aren't "rich" but whose income leads others (and the government) to believe that they are.

People who are bad with their money?
Make lots of money, have little wealth?
These aren't people who need beneficial tax law, these are people who need advisors because they are making poor choices.

These are people who should comfortably live within their means but have a false conception of what their means are.

If you are making over 70K and don't have a buffer in your paycheque, you are overspending. I'm comfortable making that assertion. Whether your car is too expensive, or your house, or whatever. The government shouldn't be helping people that are making plenty and blowing it.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Your post is generally accurate, as I understand things, except for the quoted portion because I still have to file Canadian tax returns, due to having Canadian sourced income.

Yeah, that's true. If you continue to have Canadian income, then that income is generally subject to taxes and requires a return. But all other income isn't subject to Canadian taxes, whereas for a Canadian resident foreign income is taxed.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

People who are bad with their money?
Make lots of money, have little wealth?
These aren't people who need beneficial tax law, these are people who need advisors because they are making poor choices.

These are people who should comfortably live within their means but have a false conception of what their means are.

If you are making over 70K and don't have a buffer in your paycheque, you are overspending. I'm comfortable making that assertion. Whether your car is too expensive, or your house, or whatever. The government shouldn't be helping people that are making plenty and blowing it.

The newly elected government ran on a platform of tax breaks for middle class individuals earning up to about 215k, while not including relief for those under 45k. I'm not sure they got it quite right

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The newly elected government ran on a platform of tax breaks for middle class individuals earning up to about 215k, while not including relief for those under 45k. I'm not sure they got it quite right

The Liberal platform included measures other than tax cuts to help low-income Canadians.

http://www.liberal.ca/realchange/fighting-poverty/

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Azure

What were the Liberal promises made in regards to health care reform? We can't just keep pouring endless money into a system that needs fixing.

They promised to pour more money into the system.
(No different than any other party btw. no one will touch health care reform)

[Street Pharmacist]

Here's a fun conservative elected in Alberta. Disgusting part is he's a somewhat distant relative:

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...river-westlock


He's got all kinds of dumb beliefs (his while extended family does). Homosexuality should be punishable, vaccines are a conspiracy to make people sick, pap smears are simply perverted doctors excuses to look at vaginas (seriously), etc

[Frequitude]

I've given myself a couple days to digest the results and thought I'd post my thoughts.

To start, it's no secret that I am a Conservative supporter. I have been so historically and this time I did prefer their platform compared to the Liberals. That's not to say I disliked all parts of the Liberal platform. Repealing some of Harper's pro rich tax schemes is tough to argue with even though I aspire to one day have been able to make use of them. But I couldn't get behind their deficit infrastructure spending plan. Deficits are just so much harder to get off of than simply flicking a switch. As a born and raised Calgarian and Albertans I also liked having the federal power base lie here out west.

When I walked into the polling station I still didn't know who to vote for. Kent Hehr just seemed like such a good representative and someone who deserves to be an MP. But in the end I went with the platform I preferred and picked Crockatt. Once a Liberal majority became apparent though I was definitely hammering refresh on the poll results and rooting for Hehr. I'm glad to have a good representative now and a slice of Calgarian influence on our new government.

Now onto the outcome. I'm ok with it. Happy even. Harper needed to go. The manner in which he has concentrated power in the PMO and ruled with a secret iron fist went against my view of the democratic institution. Unfortunately he took my party and preferred platform down with him.

As for the Trudeau, I'm happy to have fresh energy infused into our government. Sure, he's not the most sophisticated on global politics but I have faith in the Liberal party executives providing good guidance behind the scenes. And I have faith in Trudeau being able to somewhat repair the fractured relationships between our country's provinces.

And finally to the Liberals in power. I am happy it is a majority. First, and most importantly, it means the NDP don't hold the balance of power. Second, it reduces uncertainty and that's good for the markets. Sure, I might not have preferred their platform but at least I know what it is and what to expect. And third, they're not really that different from the conservatives at the end of the day. The two might campaign to their respective sides of centre, but they both govern to the middle. I have no irrational fears of them running this country into the ground and no fears of their actions skewering Alberta or our oil & gas industry.

It was a fun ride filled with lots of great debates with everyone in here. Thanks to everyone who partook.

[Frequitude]

Rubecube, you're still a pinko commie though...but one of the good ones and I will continue to rely on your football picks to win my office pool.