What's wrong with the Flames?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I pick "Dougie Hamilton is about as good defensively as Brett Kulak, except he gets a free pass to play top pairing when he should be sheltered"

I love how quickly some fans like to turn on new additions. Unbelievable. If I had the time I'd go back and see how excited you were when we acquired him in the first place.

[Ozy_Flame]

Iggy never got going in October, but come November, it was go-time. I see a similar progression with the Flames. Let them get their marbles together this month and we'll hit the road running after Halloween. This team is too good to continue playing like this. It's unsustainable.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I love how quickly some fans like to turn on new additions. Unbelievable. If I had the time I'd go back and see how excited you were when we acquired him in the first place.

Here:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm kind of mixed on this. Hamilton ain't all that great in his zone, but on the bright side he's a strong possession Dman (but I don't know how much of that is playing with guys like Chara and Bergeron on the bruins).

The thing that bothers me is giving Hamilton the kind of money he's asking for.

[YYC in LAX]

I said chemistry. No excuses, but the team needs to work better together. Not totally worried, but things do need to turn around fast.

Love this team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by saillias

Checked off most of the options except for:

Injuries - We lived through an injury to our #1 D. Now we're trying to say that an injury to our #2 D is the reason we're losing? I don't buy it...

It's not just the fact that Brodie is injured; it is how much that injury has affected the whole lineup. And yes, this is dramatically different than when the Flames lost Giordano, because it was not such a big adjustment for other players to shift up and provide cover in the springtime.

Giordano is still getting up to speed, and 22-year-old Dougie Hamilton is making adjustments to a new team in a new conference, AND required now to play on the top pairing with said returning player. This is an ENORMOUS mitigating factor, and all a result of Brodie's injury.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here:

So just to be clear, you're putting the entire team's struggles on a 22 year old stud defenseman who was forced up the lineup due to Brodie's injury? You're not going to look at a 32 years old veteran captain of the team who has been below average to start the year (just even for that pairing's problems, Giordano has been more of the issue). You aren't going to even consider any of the other veterans who were part of this team last year and know what's expected of them, yet have done sweet f*** all?

Where else would you put Hamilton right now? 2nd pairing with Russell while the defensively sketchy Wideman plays top pairing minutes? Or would you rather Engelland played on the top pairing?

I honestly don't know what you expect.

[saillias]

You can tell who's biased about Hamilton because they preface any mention with his age. He's not the first 22 year old defenseman to play a big role in the league and not the last. We're paying him 5.75/6 years. It's completely fair to expect more than what he's given.

[Poe969]

The team doesn't look like they're trying out there, there's very little emotion and that's a huge piss off. There are some new faces in key spots on the team and it's taking time to develop chemistry. I think the chemistry thing goes hand in hand with the coaching because it's the coaches job to find out who plays best together and who can produce the most together. The coaching staff is also who decides the starting goalie...and Ortio should have started by now.

Bad breaks and injuries happen to every team. As pointed out, Gio was injured at the end of the year and the team found a way to push harder, not an excuse. Teams are always improving. The Flames were viewed as one of the teams that had the best off seasons so you'd think that means that they improved. I also hate blaming the teams failure on what other teams have done. Every team is improving, I don't care about other teams, the Flames need to worry about themselves. Taking a "no worries" attitude would be fine if the team was trying but they just look like they're coasting and that has me worried.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

So just to be clear, you're putting the entire team's struggles on a 22 year old stud defenseman who was forced up the lineup due to Brodie's injury? You're not going to look at a 32 years old veteran captain of the team who has been below average to start the year (just even for that pairing's problems, Giordano has been more of the issue). You aren't going to even consider any of the other veterans who were part of this team last year and know what's expected of them, yet have done sweet f*** all?

Where else would you put Hamilton right now? 2nd pairing with Russell while the defensively sketchy Wideman plays top pairing minutes? Or would you rather Engelland played on the top pairing?

I honestly don't know what you expect.

I just expect some shakeup on defense. If it means promoting "sketchy" wideman then that's what it means. There's no perfect solution with Brodie out, but overplaying a guy who's still trying to learn the system while being a 22 year old prone to 22-year old mistakes hasn't worked so far.

Quite frankly due to age people are terrified at the thought of trying Kulak in our top 4 because they worry about mistakes. Well Hamilton has made all the mistakes people "assume" Kulak will make. There has to be accountability and good play has to be rewarded, poor play shouldn't get a free pass.

As for Gio, no he hasn't been great, but we know what we have in him. Do we know what we have in Hamilton? No, he's basically a rookie despite his NHL experience. Against the Jets Gio showed he's starting to work his way back to form, has Hamilton shown that so far?

This isn't me being anti-Hamilton. It's me being ANti-Top-Pair Hamilton.

Heck, if Engelland-Brodie ""worked"" last year then go to Gio-Engelland. People seem to think Engelland is this top 4 veteran defenseman after all, even if I don't at least it's a shakeup.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I just expect some shakeup on defense. If it means promoting "sketchy" wideman then that's what it means. There's no perfect solution with Brodie out, but overplaying a guy who's still trying to learn the system while being a 22 year old prone to 22-year old mistakes hasn't worked so far.

No it hasn't. At least in part because Giordano has been terrible. Neither has helped the other, nor the team.

[Wolven]

I would say chemistry is one of the biggest problems with the team right now. There are still a few too many question marks around the team including the 3 headed goalie situation, Raymond in waiver limbo, and the pending dman overload when Smid and Brodie both come back from injuries.

[codynw]

People are being way too hard on Hamilton. Pretty much the entire team is underperforming, including the captain, why is Dougie being singled out so often?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It's not just the fact that Brodie is injured; it is how much that injury has affected the whole lineup. And yes, this is dramatically different than when the Flames lost Giordano, because it was not such a big adjustment for other players to shift up and provide cover in the springtime.

Giordano is still getting up to speed, and 22-year-old Dougie Hamilton is making adjustments to a new team in a new conference, AND required now to play on the top pairing with said returning player. This is an ENORMOUS mitigating factor, and all a result of Brodie's injury.

Agree. I don't blame Hamilton, but I think he's still in the later stages of being a great "prospect", and expectations have been set too high by some.

[Toonage]

My only issue with Hamilton is how he plays opponents in front of the net. But that will sort itself out soon enough.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Personally, I think coaching is the culprit.
Last year we were a surprise; this year, the book is out on us and our gameplan. It is up to our coaches to adapt, and they have yet to do so. The players look awful because the opposition knows exactly how we are going to play.

This. Much of the success the team had last season to finish 16th overall was due to long stretch passes, d-men jumping in, and third-period comebacks. The latter isn't something you can expect to repeat, and the first two are tactics that other teams have adapted to. At some point, this team will have to learn to cycle effectively and play a heavy game down low. Part of that will come down to coaching, and part will come down to management bringing in the right personnel.

Basically, this is still a young, rebuilding team that lacks scoring depth up front, reliable goaltending, and defencemen who can win the puck back in our own zone. The roster is far from a finished product, and the team will probably have to take a step backward before taking another step forward.

[troutman]

Not enough size and grit.

Treliving has hinted we need to get much better in this area.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by saillias

You can tell who's biased about Hamilton because they preface any mention with his age. He's not the first 22 year old defenseman to play a big role in the league and not the last. We're paying him 5.75/6 years. It's completely fair to expect more than what he's given.

How many 22-year-old defensemen are expected to jump in and play on the top pairing on a new team in a new conference?

I think the criticism is fair, but I also think it is really shortsighted to ignore the context and mitigating factors here.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

Personally, I think coaching is the culprit.
Last year we were a surprise; this year, the book is out on us and our gameplan. It is up to our coaches to adapt, and they have yet to do so. The players look awful because the opposition knows exactly how we are going to play.

Don't buy this. Teams had plenty of time to figure out they game plan last season. It's not like they said "whew, that flames team is something....can't wait until summer so we can work on our plan to stop them".

[nieuwy-89]

I picked effort and goaltending.

Effort - too many of our offensive players have been invisible. The support players aren't helping either. I wanted to see Bouma and Ferland in particular play like buzzsaws but haven't seen it yet. No intensity, not even close to the second half of last season.

Goaltending - Both goalies have made some spectacular saves early in the season but both have also allowed absolutely weak back-breaking goals. It's great to have highlight reel goaltending, but first and foremost they need to make the basic saves. I always remember Darryl Sutter saying that the goalie's most important stat is Wins, and so far both goalies are failing miserably on that count.

[Strange Brew]

I voted effort and chemistry. There was no option for "What if the Flames are not as good as we think they are?". It's early, but I am somewhat concerned about that. Still, they have to be better than this.

I don't believe an injury to Brodie should be affecting the team that much. If so, that is serious cause for concern.

It is tough to criticize Hamilton so early. Young guy on a new team. But the Flames gave up a lot to get him and paying him very close to the Oiler 6x6 contracts. The Oilers have been subject to constant ridicule for that - paying $'s before they were earned. Dougie needs to get out there and start earning that contract. There are a few players that need to start doing that.