Slightly off topic: I spent a year in the Balkans from 1995-96 and learned very quickly not to believe the media and, for that matter, the government(s). They both will spin the situation for their own benefit. Ultimately, the only truth is the lie. I was an UNMO in Sarajevo in 1995 and reported that a rocket attack on the PTT building came from Bosnian government lines. The Bosnian government declared it was from Serb lines. I and another UNMO were booted out of Bosnia - declared persona non grata.
Anyway, I remain cynical of what I am told these days.
Is the US government giving support to ISIS directly? Probably not, but with this gang of neocon and neolib misfits, it wouldn't surprise me.
The US Government will remain at arm's length through all of this to be sure. Unfortunately, they do very little to influence their allies in the region and, thus, it is quite easy to make the leap that they are, in fact, supporting ISIS (albeit indirectly).
ISIS receives their support from Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar, and UAE. These countries are all Uncle Sam's allies in the region and despite all of the chest-thumping about ISIS, The USA turns its head when it comes down to the fact that its allies are providing the support - directly in many cases when convoys cross the frontier from Turkey to Syria.
If the USA was truly serious, all they could tell Jordan and Turkey to seal off their borders.
If the USA was truly serious, they would have the training camps in Turkey and Jordan shut down.
The Saudi and Qatari barbarians continue to send their mercenaries into Syria to stir up shyte and, yet, I do not hear anything from the US State Department.
The USA couldn't care less about ISIS. ISIS is a means to end. That end is the removal of Assad. ISIS is the Kabuki theatre to give the USA a pretext to move into Syria and hand it over to the House of Saud and its puppet Qatar. Unfortunately for them (but fortunately for everyone else), the Russians beat them to it.
Putin has got the O'bama Administration so discombobulated, they don't know whether to run, $hitt, or go blind.
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"If you do not know what you are doing, neither does your enemy."
- - Joe Tzu
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I really don't see how this shows anything. This document states that the majority of opposition forces are extremist. However, that doesn't mean that the US cannot support moderate elements.
The document is also dated September 12, 2012. The Syrian civil war began in March of 2011. By September of 2012, things had already totally unraveled and salafists were in control of large parts of the country. All this document does is list current events in Syria and state potential outcomes.
It does not state the US is funding extremist elements in the rebels. In fact, the document is 100% silent on what the US should do. It merely gives a very brief overview of the then current situation and what might happen.
The document makes no mention of the US giving support to extremist elements in a big to topple Assad. Once again, we have the same jump in logic. The US supported some rebel elements, therefore, they must have supported all rebel elements? The fact of the matter is that the US's involvement in Syria was relatively minor. It consisted of:
1) An attempt to train a few rebel groups, but that plan was quickly abandoned; and
2) Limited airstrikes, largely to shore up Kurdish position and prevent ISIS advancement.
If anything, this document appears to discuss what might happen if the US does nothing, as opposed to what their plan is.
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Regardless of the US either directly or indirectly "supporting" ISIS (ignoring the influence from their foreign policy) we will see how well they are trained or where their commitment level is once the Spetznaz rolls in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Regardless of the US either directly or indirectly "supporting" ISIS (ignoring the influence from their foreign policy) we will see how well they are trained or where their commitment level is once the Spetznaz rolls in.
This.
The Spetznaz are like the Navy Seals without a conscious. The Western conscious combined with Russia severely limiting Western action in Syria has led to ISIS being very sheltered so far.
The Spetznaz are simply not going to respond to ISIS threats to harm civilians and hostages. When Chechnan terrorists held hostages in the Beslan school crisis and the Moscow theatre incident, the Spetznaz just stormed in. They were willing to sacrifice hundreds of Russian civilians in order to provide a heavy handed response. I can only imagine what they'll do to ISIS fighters embedded in areas filled with Syrian civilians.
Basically they don't take chances, they will kill everything and do it as a message.
The concern though has to be if the Russians roll their regular forces in which are hugely artillery dependent. Russian troops were well known for their ability to fight in cities and building to building . . . until they figured out that its better to knock buildings down with artillery and then count bodies.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
The Spetznaz are like the Navy Seals without a conscious. The Western conscious combined with Russia severely limiting Western action in Syria has led to ISIS being very sheltered so far.
The Spetznaz are simply not going to respond to ISIS threats to harm civilians and hostages. When Chechnan terrorists held hostages in the Beslan school crisis and the Moscow theatre incident, the Spetznaz just stormed in. They were willing to sacrifice hundreds of Russian civilians in order to provide a heavy handed response. I can only imagine what they'll do to ISIS fighters embedded in areas filled with Syrian civilians.
The article that I read (will try and find it later) stated that the majority of the Spetznaz troops that are being deployed were battle hardened in Chechnya. These aren't fresh faced recruits, these are guys that have lived and breathed this for years. Their marching orders (from the article that I read) were to Locate, Infiltrate, Eradicate.
Anyone who thinks ISIS fighters are butchers have yet to see savagery. These men will brutally wipe ISIS off the face of the earth and go home and sleep like babies. And in all honesty, good. Get it done.
Heavy hand response is a very apt description.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Basically they don't take chances, they will kill everything and do it as a message.
The concern though has to be if the Russians roll their regular forces in which are hugely artillery dependent. Russian troops were well known for their ability to fight in cities and building to building . . . until they figured out that its better to knock buildings down with artillery and then count bodies.
I wonder if that's part of their strategy? Let Spetznaz do the dirty work and drive them into their holes so the regs can go in a clean up the mess with minimal damage to infrastructure?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Chances are that the their first step is intelligence gathering, they'll infiltrate, try to find enemy leadership and then track their movements, they'll also look for the logistics trains and track those as well. We used to call it counting trucks and crowns. (Yes even though I was just a normal grunt we worked on that)
Once they pin these things down and become comfortable, they'll either infiltrate and kill everything at the right moment, or they'll call in artillary, airstrikes or Russia's airborne assault.
They don't want them in the buildings, they want to drive them into the open and kill them, or force them to do things that they don't want to do.
Even if you're good at it, you don't want to fight building to building, its too easy to die.
I think its important to note that Spetsnaz isn't one unit, its more of a designation through the whole Russian defense force.
While the United States takes pleasure in giving their special forces different names, the Russians don't its one big cloudy designation.
There are naval, army Spetsnaz. There is a special unit called the 45th guard which is their elite airborne unit like the American 81st and 101st airborne.
The FSB (State Security) and MVD Military intelligence have their own units designated as Spetsnaz.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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I wonder, if Russia actually makes a significant dent in ISIS, what that does to western perception. US has seem very reluctant to welcome Russia into this melee; and their stance on Assad is in contradiction with Russia.
Hopefully they all work together like one big happy family and welcome Russia back into the global community after a successful campaign. And then there's China saying "Hey! Hey everybody! Look at me! I support Russia!"
One errant missile, or intel leading to "friendly fire" between Russian/American forces could be a match to gasoline. Hope we don't see that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
This is the third or fourth time Iraq has said they bombed him. Each time within a couple of days there is audio from him. Let's see what happens this time.
Episode 1 of Homeland explained it pretty well. Two options exist. 250,000 troops on the ground indefinitely to provide support for teachers and doctors to turn the whole region around. Or, bomb everything and start from scratch.
Russia is probably going to do option 2 to some degree.
