Furious evolution debate hits Kenyan museum

[Cheese]

Really interesting article on how the Church is trying to have the National Museum of Kenya removed or downplayed due to its massive collection of early hominid artifacts.

The Origins Of Man exhibit, comprised of pre-historic finds from around Africa's Great Rift Valley considered by many to be the cradle of humanity, is offensive as it promotes Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, they say.

When museums put it out there that man evolved from apes, theologically they are affecting many people who are Christians, who believe God created us," says Bishop Boniface Adoyo, who is leading a campaign against the exhibit."


Furious debate hits Kenya

[troutman]

Men did not evolve from apes. Men and apes had a common ancestor.

[FlamesAddiction]

Who is "The Church"?

It is actually a small extremist evangelical wing of protestantism. They don't make up nearly the majority of Christians, and therefore should not really be given the pretentious title of being THE end-all of anything. IMO of course.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Who is "The Church"?

It is actually an extremist evangalitical wing of protestantism. They don't make up nearly the majority of Christians, and therefore should not really be given the pretentious title of being THE end-all of anything. IMO of course.

I was gonna say the same thing, but I figured I'd get the old "If you don't like it don't read it".

Oh well, it's more fun to say that "The Church" is opposed to evolution than it is to say "a church".

[arsenal]

Quotes from the article:

"When museums put it out there that man evolved from apes, theologically they are affecting many people who are Christians, who believe God created us," says Bishop Boniface Adoyo, who is leading a campaign against the exhibit.

Thats because there is no evidence to support your theory. Just a stroy. Next.

"It's creating a big weapon against Christians that's killing our faith," he told AFP, calling evolution theory an "insult" and dangerous to youths. "When children go to museums they'll start believing we evolved from these apes.

Really? You don't want people to think for themselves? Interesting.. I thought that God gave human's free will and the freedom to choose. What he is proposing kind of goes against what he is preaching. Hypocrisy is fun.

"This is not the truth," said Adoyo, pastor of Nairobi's "Christ is the Answer Ministries" and chairman of the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya....

And you have the evidence to back that up?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Who is "The Church"?

It is actually a small extremist evangelical wing of protestantism. They don't make up nearly the majority of Christians, and therefore should not really be given the pretentious title of being THE end-all of anything. IMO of course.

The Christian community here is very uncomfortable that Leakey and his group want their theories presented as fact," said Bishop Bonifes Adoyo, the head of Christ is the Answer Ministries, the largest Pentecostal church in Kenya.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Cheese

The Christian community here is very uncomfortable that Leakey and his group want their theories presented as fact," said Bishop Bonifes Adoyo, the head of Christ is the Answer Ministries, the largest Pentecostal church in Kenya.

And that's no small amount; I seem to recall that Kenya has one of the highest percentage of pentecostal followers in the world, something like 1 in 8. Not a significant amount within Christians worldwide, but as far as this country goes, it's a very significant voice.

[Superflyer]

I am so tired of these issues. The\A church is ticked off because evolution is being featured and people might start to think that this happened. I personally believe that evolution happened and it is not because of some display that I saw in a museum, it is becuase after looking at both sides of the story, evolutionism and creationism, I think that the theory of evolution makes more sence to me. There are to many holes in the theory of evolution.
Also I will say that neither theory has been proven, that is why they are "Theories". So maybe we were all created from a single power, who knows, I just personally doubt it.

[someguy51]

I don't consider myself religious and I believe in the theory of evolution. However, my parents are hardcore Christians and they also believe in the thoery of evolution. They think that Adam and Eve were the first fully evolved humans. Remember that the bible was written by people who make mistakes and assumptions...

[Phaneuf3]

i don't see why the two theories are mutually exclusive. maybe god created our ancestors and let natural selection happen from there. maybe evolution had a bit of divine guidance and got a little kick in the ass from god to help it down the right path.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Science and religion can support each other. I don't know why it has to be one or the other.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Science and religion can support each other. I don't know why it has to be one or the other.

Exactly.

But the article points out the ignorance of certain religious people regarding evolution.

They're still stuck in the "we come from apes" era.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by octothorp

And that's no small amount; I seem to recall that Kenya has one of the highest percentage of pentecostal followers in the world, something like 1 in 8. Not a significant amount within Christians worldwide, but as far as this country goes, it's a very significant voice.

I don't see it as that significant.

For example, the United Church represents slightly more than 1 out 8 Albertans, yet I think it would be deceptive to refer to it as "The Church" when it comes religous statements made in the province.

To put it another light, approximately 1 out 8 Albertans are of French origin. Certainly not "THE" ethnic origin of Alberta.

Honestly, I don't really care that much. Just pointing out that the way it is worded is misleading and shows either lazy journalism or an axe to grind.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

I am so tired of these issues. The\A church is ticked off because evolution is being featured and people might start to think that this happened. I personally believe that evolution happened and it is not because of some display that I saw in a museum, it is becuase after looking at both sides of the story, evolutionism and creationism, I think that the theory of evolution makes more sence to me. There are to many holes in the theory of evolution.
Also I will say that neither theory has been proven, that is why they are "Theories". So maybe we were all created from a single power, who knows, I just personally doubt it.

People sometimes try to score debating points by saying, "Evolution is only a theory." That is correct, but it's important to understand what that means. It is also only a theory that the world goes round the Sun -- it's just a theory for which there is an immense amount of evidence.
There are many scientific theories that are in doubt. Even within evolution, there is some room for controversy. But that we are cousins of apes and jackals and starfish, let's say, that is a fact in the ordinary sense of the word.
-- Richard Dawkins, "Nick Pollard interviews Richard Dawkins" (Damars: 1999) ††

Creationism is not a "theory", as it can't be tested.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

Creationism is not a "theory", as it can't be tested.

No kidding. Thats why its taken as cold hard 'fact.'

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

i don't see why the two theories are mutually exclusive. maybe god created our ancestors and let natural selection happen from there. maybe evolution had a bit of divine guidance and got a little kick in the ass from god to help it down the right path.

One of the problems for Theistic Evolution has been something known as the “Neo-Darwinian Synthesis.” Begun in the 1940s, this was a synthesis of the work being done by field biologists on the one hand and experimental work performed by geneticists on the other. This process managed to eliminate many of the “mysteries” in how evolution and natural selection work. Why is this a problem? Traditionally, Theistic Evolution has relied on the idea that evolutionary theory hasn’t been able to explain how evolution works. These mysteries were gaps in our understanding of nature and, as has happened so often in the relationship between religion and science, religious belief relied upon gaps in scientific knowledge which have become all but filled. Once those gaps are indeed filled, what is the basis for continuing religious belief and continuing Theistic Evolution?
About Atheism

It's often said that because evolution happened in the past, and we didn't see it happen, there is no direct evidence for it. That, of course, is nonsense. It's rather like a detective coming on the scene of a crime, obviously after the crime has been committed, and working out what must have happened by looking at the clues that remain. In the story of evolution, the clues are a billionfold.
Gordy Slack

[White Doors]

Jesus loves you Cheese.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Jesus loves you Cheese.

Maybe...but only in your world WD LOLOL.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they are under the impression that Natural Selection, as Darwin articulated (he did not invent it) is only one mode of evolution. There are many other modes, and new discoveries are made all the time.

Saying that evolution is not observable or proven is false. There are numerous examples of the evolutionary process working that we can observe, such as; how selective breeding has altered many domesticated animals into new breeds. It's not hard to see how natural conditions can also lead to selective breeding, and therefore selective allele distribution.

Not all of evolution it explainable at this point, but a great deal of it is.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Cheese

One of the problems for Theistic Evolution has been something known as the “Neo-Darwinian Synthesis.” Begun in the 1940s, this was a synthesis of the work being done by field biologists on the one hand and experimental work performed by geneticists on the other. This process managed to eliminate many of the “mysteries” in how evolution and natural selection work. Why is this a problem? Traditionally, Theistic Evolution has relied on the idea that evolutionary theory hasn’t been able to explain how evolution works. These mysteries were gaps in our understanding of nature and, as has happened so often in the relationship between religion and science, religious belief relied upon gaps in scientific knowledge which have become all but filled. Once those gaps are indeed filled, what is the basis for continuing religious belief and continuing Theistic Evolution?
About Atheism

It's often said that because evolution happened in the past, and we didn't see it happen, there is no direct evidence for it. That, of course, is nonsense. It's rather like a detective coming on the scene of a crime, obviously after the crime has been committed, and working out what must have happened by looking at the clues that remain. In the story of evolution, the clues are a billionfold.
Gordy Slack

and theistic evolution remains possible today. we know a lot more about our surroundings then we ever have before but there is still a LOT that remains a mystery. exactly how the first spark of life was created, how everything (matter) came to be, etc.

also, even if you find all the physical steps that occurred throughout the creation of the universe, life as we know it and the evolution of our species you won't be able to disprove theistic evolution until you can prove that god had no hand in the circumstances. you're only going to be able to completely disprove that when you prove that god doesn't exist (read: never)

edit: talking about god in a supreme being sense here. not in any perticular dogmatic faith context.