[News] Robin Lehner out 6-10 weeks

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I highly doubt the Sabres will be interested in Ramo. I can't see any team in the league really interested in Ramo getting paid over $3 million as goaltenders like him are dime a dozen. Likely Hiller but then that leaves the Flames in a position where they have to go all in on Ortio. Very risky.

The Flames can always retain salary on Ramo. From Buffalo's perspective, they probably can't trust Chad Johnson or whoever their prospect is to save their season. Buffalo isnt cheap either, I'm sure they can make it work at $1.9.

It's probably worth remembering Brad Treliving signed Hiller. Karri Ramo is all Jay Feaster. So on top of the experience factor and the slightly better numbers, he's the GM's first free agent signing. And he's done exactly what he was brought here to do. That doesn't usually get you traded.

Ramo got 3.8M from us so he could be traded at a moment's notice. Treliving covers his bases - he wasn't going to gamble on Ortio not being ready. He didn't assume Gaudreau would be ready for full time NHL work, so he signed Raymond.

It makes too much sense for Ramo to be a Sabre.

[Sylvanfan]

I suspect the Sabres will make a play for Ben Scrivens long before they trade for Ramo.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Flames can always retain salary on Ramo. From Buffalo's perspective, they probably can't trust Chad Johnson or whoever their prospect is to save their season. Buffalo isnt cheap either, I'm sure they can make it work at $1.9.

It's probably worth remembering Brad Treliving signed Hiller. Karri Ramo is all Jay Feaster. So on top of the experience factor and the slightly better numbers, he's the GM's first free agent signing. And he's done exactly what he was brought here to do. That doesn't usually get you traded.

Ramo got 3.8M from us so he could be traded at a moment's notice. Treliving covers his bases - he wasn't going to gamble on Ortio not being ready. He didn't assume Gaudreau would be ready for full time NHL work, so he signed Raymond.

It makes too much sense for Ramo to be a Sabre.

I think either goalie is just as likely to be traded. Though you have a point with the above, Treliving still re-signed Ramo and there were some rumors of having Hiller available. Most signs pointed to Hiller leaving. Hiller is also as good as he ever will be, and one could probably start to expect that he will start regressing - how soon and how fast is the question, but he is either over his 'prime' or at the tail end of it. There are solid reasons to move Hiller,. not to mention the return would more likely be a bit better.

I feel at this point, either goalie is as likely to move as the other. I think it all depends on what the other team prefers. They are two very different types of goalies. Maybe to figure it out better, one would have to look at the goalie coach of the respective teams and see what styles they seem to prefer - traditional butterfly style (Hiller) or athletic Finn style (Ramo).

It may not be the goalie that the Flames value the most. It may just be the goalie that the trade partner values the most.

[stemit14]

Seems like lots of people are forgetting how much more confident most of us on CP were with ramo going into the playoffs over hiller. Not saying we should keep him over hiller but one rough game for ramo does not put hiller as the clear favourite in my mind.


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[powderjunkie]

I prefer to keep Hiller for a number of reasons, not least of which is that his numbers are superior to Ramo in nearly every category (I think it may actually be every category).

I also like his playoff experience and better 'mentor' value for Ortio. If I'm Buffalo, I want to try Ramo and see if I can catch lightning in a bottle (which I just don't see happening here).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Seems like lots of people are forgetting how much more confident most of us on CP were with ramo going into the playoffs over hiller. Not saying we should keep him over hiller but one rough game for ramo does not put hiller as the clear favourite in my mind.


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It's not one game, it's every season they've played Hiller's been better. On the flip side, Hiller came in for Ramo then Ramo came in for Hiller. One game shouldn't change people's opinion of Hiller. He's less exciting, but he's a better Goalie

[GranteedEV]

Even during our 8 game losing streak last year, Hiller had games he deserved to win (Chicago, Vancouver) while Ramo was a mess and cost us games the team deserved to win (Buffalo especially)

The only reason I see for favoring Ramo over Hiller is that Ramo is better-suited to a humble backup role if Ortio is the clear cut #1.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

It's such a tough balance when thinking about Ramo and Hiller and even Ortio to some degree.

As for Ramo / Hiller, I think sometimes the fairly typical feeling of just wanting the younger guy Ramo to be the better option probably skews opinion sometimes. Also, Ramo's style is simply so much mor athletic, that visually, he often looks better, especially when the goalies aren't bringing their A game, Ramo just looks better visually.

But I think the truth of the matter is, Hiller is better than Ramo more often, and certainly their careers to date would back that up. That said, when they both play their best, I think Ramo's best game is better than Hillers.

So tough to know what to do, but I do think Hiller will give us a better chance to win more often, but I guess we'll see.

Also, even with Ortio thrown in, I think we are all assuming it's a choice between Ramo and Hiller and Ortio is likely safe because he's younger. But I wonder if age for any of these guys is a factor. Ortio will be harder to judge, but if the Flames are only looking at any of these guys to be the starter before Gilles is ready (4 to 5 years) maybe their ages don't matter if they think each of them Has at least 4 years left (speaking of Hiller here). If that's the case, age won't matter and they'll be looking to either upgrade on all three, or pick the best two for right now.

[dammage79]

^ The Flames current situation is eerily similar to the SJ Sharks sitation when the Kipper trade happened. The Sharks refused to give up on the veteran duo of Nabokov/Toskala and traded Kipper for a 2nd. A year later, the two headed monster that was the Sharks goaltending went down to Nabby and someone while Toskala went to TOR and elsewhere. And Kipper turned out to be the franchise goalie everyone in the NHL wants.

I'm really hoping the Flames learn from their good fortune of yore and move the vets long before even considering moving the up and comer.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dammage79

^ The Flames current situation is eerily similar to the SJ Sharks sitation when the Kipper trade happened. The Sharks refused to give up on the veteran duo of Nabokov/Tokarski and traded Kipper for a 2nd. A year later, the two headed monster that was the Sharks goaltending went down to Nabby and someone while Tokarski went to TOR and elsewhere. And Kipper turned out to be the franchise goalie everyone in the NHL wants.

I'm really hoping the Flames learn from their good fortune of yore and move the vets long before even considering moving the up and comer.

Tokarski is the third stringer for the Canadiens, you're thinking of Vesa Toskala

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by bax

Tokarski is the third stringer for the Canadiens, you're thinking of Vesa Toskala

Yes, you are right. My bad. Editing.

[Kidder]

Nm.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yes, you are right. My bad. Editing.

Haha easy mix up, very similar last names. Your point still stands regardless!

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by dammage79

^ The Flames current situation is eerily similar to the SJ Sharks sitation when the Kipper trade happened. The Sharks refused to give up on the veteran duo of Nabokov/Toskala and traded Kipper for a 2nd. A year later, the two headed monster that was the Sharks goaltending went down to Nabby and someone while Toskala went to TOR and elsewhere. And Kipper turned out to be the franchise goalie everyone in the NHL wants.

I'm really hoping the Flames learn from their good fortune of yore and move the vets long before even considering moving the up and comer.

I'm not advocating for Ortio to be moved, I won't pretend to know what the Flames should do, I hope that Irtio is the guy they think can be there best option in short order. But to suggested that moving Ortio is a mistake because when Sharks moved Kipper he ended up being amazing is really not relevant. Situations aren't that similar, and even if they were Kipper was a very rare home run, and things didn't even end up that bad for the Sharks.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by dammage79

^ The Flames current situation is eerily similar to the SJ Sharks sitation when the Kipper trade happened. The Sharks refused to give up on the veteran duo of Nabokov/Toskala and traded Kipper for a 2nd. A year later, the two headed monster that was the Sharks goaltending went down to Nabby and someone while Toskala went to TOR and elsewhere. And Kipper turned out to be the franchise goalie everyone in the NHL wants.

I'm really hoping the Flames learn from their good fortune of yore and move the vets long before even considering moving the up and comer.

I believe kipper was the vet and toskala was the young guy. In this case I think Ramo is the comparable

[driveway]

I think the flames would be better served to keep Ramo, as his and Ortio's style: the Finnish, suck-up-every-rebound style are very similar.

Hiller is as pure a blocking/positional goalie as you'll ever see in the NHL and the way the defense has to prepare for an clear pucks away from the net are very, very different between the two styles.

Not that I think it would be particularly challenging for pros to be prepared to play two styles, but I think the ability to have two largely similar goalies would be advantageous.

Also, it's pretty clear that neither Ramo nor Hiller are the guy to get us deep in the playoffs. They could get us there, but I think with them in net we're first/second round fodder.

It'll be Ortio or Gillies who get us over the hump, the possibility exists this year to see if Ortio has what it takes. Trade either goalie ( my preference being Hiller for the style reasons above) and hand the keys to Ortio

If it crashes and burns, Ramo is good enough to win 30 games and keep us from collapsing too far. We collect the mid-to-low-teens draft pick next summer, sign another Ramo/Hiller-esq veteran in the offseason and give Gillies his shot.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by squirtle

But seriously, trade whichever one maximizes your return.

uhhhh, no. You trade the odd man out and keep the ones that give you the best chance to win.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Flames can always retain salary on Ramo. From Buffalo's perspective, they probably can't trust Chad Johnson or whoever their prospect is to save their season. Buffalo isnt cheap either, I'm sure they can make it work at $1.9.

It's probably worth remembering Brad Treliving signed Hiller. Karri Ramo is all Jay Feaster. So on top of the experience factor and the slightly better numbers, he's the GM's first free agent signing. And he's done exactly what he was brought here to do. That doesn't usually get you traded.

Ramo got 3.8M from us so he could be traded at a moment's notice. Treliving covers his bases - he wasn't going to gamble on Ortio not being ready. He didn't assume Gaudreau would be ready for full time NHL work, so he signed Raymond.

It makes too much sense for Ramo to be a Sabre.

All the talk has been since the deadline that Hiller is the g that we've been trying to trade.

http://www.tsn.ca/who-s-on-the-block...board-1.314041

Also, Treliving did re-sign Ramo. If Ramo was the odd guy out, he wouldn't have been brought back. Not saying it's impossible that Ramo gets dealt but probability of Hiller being dealt over Ramo is higher.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not one game, it's every season they've played Hiller's been better. On the flip side, Hiller came in for Ramo then Ramo came in for Hiller. One game shouldn't change people's opinion of Hiller. He's less exciting, but he's a better Goalie

The problem with your logic is Hiller lost his job to Ramo at the most important time of the year. Frankly, the way Hiller was playing down the stretch, if they had stuck with him the Flames probably don't make the playoffs, and if they do, they get bounced by the Canucks early.

You say one game shouldn't change people's mind on Hiller, but you're telling people to give up on Ramo after one game this season, after he won the starting role at the most crucial part of the season. Kind of ironic, don't you think?

I think someone said it best in this thread. Hiller is a better shot blocker. Ramo is the better instinctive and athletic goaltender. Frankly, neither are great goaltenders and both leave a lot to be desired. Long term, I go with Ramo, simply because Hiller has proven himself mentally weak as the games Ramo up. This is why Anaheim got rid of him, and what he showed last season for Calgary. I think he makes a great backup, but as a starter he scares me. I think every team knows this, but is what would make him a good fit for the Sabers at the moment. Treliving obviously feels this way, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to move Hiller and sign Ramo in the off season.

[bax]

Originally Posted by New Era

The problem with your logic is Hiller lost his job to Ramo at the most important time of the year. Frankly, the way Hiller was playing down the stretch, if they had stuck with him the Flames probably don't make the playoffs, and if they do, they get bounced by the Canucks early.

You say one game shouldn't change people's mind on Hiller, but you're telling people to give up on Ramo after one game this season, after he won the starting role at the most crucial part of the season. Kind of ironic, don't you think?

I think someone said it best in this thread. Hiller is a better shot blocker. Ramo is the better instinctive and athletic goaltender. Frankly, neither are great goaltenders and both leave a lot to be desired. Long term, I go with Ramo, simply because Hiller has proven himself mentally weak as the games Ramo up. This is why Anaheim got rid of him, and what he showed last season for Calgary. I think he makes a great backup, but as a starter he scares me. I think every team knows this, but is what would make him a good fit for the Sabers at the moment. Treliving obviously feels this way, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to move Hiller and sign Ramo in the off season.

What are you talking about? Hiller is mentally weak? I would argue that Ramo is the mentally weak one.

With Hiller you know what you're going to get, he's not outstanding, but he's consistent. Ramo may have higher highs, but he also has lower lows