Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I'd take the opposite approach. Fund the actual useful degrees like Science and Engineering so more spots are available and the best and brightest are able to attend regardless of the cost.

Boy, that sure sounds like a fun society to live in. Full of useful, unemployed engineers and science-degree holders and everyone else gets to go to trade school if they are not among the "best and brightest", which of course all engineers and science degree-holders are (except for the stupid ones).

[#-3]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

On the education front, I think we need to drastically re-tool.

I'm of a mind that kids get enough "general" education by grade 10 (I know I haven't used anything I learned in most grade 11 or 12 classes - why did I spend all that time sweating over chemistry or quadratic equations FFS?).

I think it would make sense to convert grades 11 and 12 to the first 2 years of a 4 year undergraduate, so that kids can get a head start and be done their undergrad degree by the age of 20, and potentially a master's degree by 22 or 23.

That's not to say kids would head off to university at 16 - just that the first 2 years of university curricula would be completed in high school, with the latter two years completed at university. The Advance Placement programs at some schools already do this to a degree, but I'd go way further than that.

I've thought of this as a big problem for a long time, and think this is one of the more interesting ideas I have heard in along time.

How would you split it up?
my guess would be

General Studies grade 10. Heavier emphasis on identifying skills and what you enjoy, so you can qualify for or select a program in the following years.

2 year more specialized diploma programs, that could give you advanced standing at a degree institution. An individual student focus's about 50% of their time on a primary topic. and the remaining on lite versions of the other cores & physical ed, and there is a big reduction in liberal education at high schools.

Split it up into about 8 programs?
Chem/Physics
Bio/Kinesiology
Math/Economics
English/Languages
Giopolicical/History
Tech
Art/Design/Food
Registered Apprenticeship Program Yr 1&2


I see some big problems with this,

You will probably see a big reduction in economic mobility among those in their 20's, which I would guess is when you see the most economic mobility within society currently. Reducing predetermination of ones role in life is really the great success of our current education system.

You will probably see a big increase in Grade 13 as people want to change their diploma half way throw the second year.

The high schools are tool small to run all of these programs at one time. You would probably need around 500 students/grade to run all of these programs in one school. That's double to triple the average size of our schools. How do rural schools keep up and run 8 different programs with only 30-60 kids?

How do you qualify or divide kids for these programs?

You will have to ask the university to recreate themselves at the same time, which will also create a big problem for Students who want to go to school out of province or foreign students who want to come here.

People just don't know themselves well enough at 16. I know I chose the wrong program in university at 18, and I'm certain I would have chosen the wrong program from that list at 16.

In spite of all of those problems, I still think its a pretty interesting idea.


I've long thought the solution to our University problem is to heavily encourage educated industries like, research, law, accounting.... to hire uneducated people and take it upon themselves to educate them. The problem is professional associations tend to start with this model and move away from it as they grow, so they can make their members more valuable by limiting membership. But it really doesn't address the issue of so many people wasting so much time in high school.

[John Doe]

Nm

Wrong thread.

I was going to post something about the election.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by John Doe

Nm

Wrong thread.

I was going to post something about the election.

Quite right: we're off on a tangent here, and should get back to election talk.

Which, thankfully, means that unless someone starts an Educational Reform thread, I won't have to explain my harebrained ideas...

[rubecube]

More shady stuff and shady people associated with the Harper government. At what point do CPC supporters concede that he's made some pretty poor judgements on the people he appoints?

http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2015/10/05/...tical-Scandal/

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by rubecube

More shady stuff and shady people associated with the Harper government. At what point do CPC supporters concede that he's made some pretty poor judgements on the people he appoints?

http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2015/10/05/...tical-Scandal/

Thanks for posting this, I would not have seen it otherwise. I have to say though this doesn't strike me as a piece that deserves any attention, in that it might have some basis but its too hard to tell through the writer's own biases, which are on display in the article. I've heard of this Carson fellow before and understand he's bad news, but this article seems to be very reaching to me. I wonder if any main stream media will pick it up.

[rubecube]

Yeah, the site is known for being heavily left-wing, but I thought the writer did a decent job in getting sources and numbers to back things up.

[flylock shox]

The author, Andrew Nikiforuk, has been plugged into the oil and gas game in Calgary a long time.

He wrote a book about Wiebo Ludwig called "Saboteurs." A very interesting read.

I would expect he knows what of he speaks, but as for his biases, I can't say.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by rubecube

More shady stuff and shady people associated with the Harper government. At what point do CPC supporters concede that he's made some pretty poor judgements on the people he appoints?

http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2015/10/05/...tical-Scandal/

There's a reason Harper keeps a muzzle on the members of his party.

Given the number we already know about who were involved in shady dealings (including a number charged with criminal offences) one has to wonder how much other stuff has been going on that we don't know about.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

There's a reason Harper keeps a muzzle on the members of his party.

Given the number we already know about who were involved in shady dealings (including a number charged with criminal offences) one has to wonder how much other stuff has been going on that we don't know about.

Liberals, Conservatives, its all the same thing when it comes down to shady dealings over time. As a teenager I idolized Mulroney, he was intelligent, sharp, charming, and advanced issues I cared about (free trade was important to me, still is). Now I have hollow memories, he became involved with the wrong people, and that is his own fault. Liberals, the same, their transgressions are more recent and just as bad. Mulcair? While I have confessed I like him, he's remortgaged his house so many times I really do wonder what is going on there. Those kinds of dealings suggest the kinds of problems you wouldn't want your PM involved in.

[Wormius]

Missed the debates, but does Harper still have his head in the sand, believing that we are not in a recession and losing jobs? Would be nice to hear if he has some plan or is just going to ignore the situation.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

The author, Andrew Nikiforuk, has been plugged into the oil and gas game in Calgary a long time.

He wrote a book about Wiebo Ludwig called "Saboteurs." A very interesting read.

I would expect he knows what of he speaks, but as for his biases, I can't say.

When I hear "plugged in" I usually expect that means, an insider. He was just the opposite, an outsider. Opposing views are very important, and as an outsider he wouldn't have the biases those insiders have, but still, just read the article linked by Rubecube and I think its fairly obvious where he stands... its not reporting facts, its stitching together an argument, and in that article it seems to tie some things together which are hard to accept if you aren't already on the same page.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Missed the debates, but does Harper still have his head in the sand, believing that we are not in a recession and losing jobs? Would be nice to hear if he has some plan or is just going to ignore the situation.

Perhaps you missed this. Growth in the Canadian economy over the last two months has significantly exceeded forecasts.

The Canadian economy posted its second straight month of impressive growth in July, strengthening the case that the country’s economic fortunes have turned a corner following a trying first half of the year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle26596062/

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Perhaps you missed this. Growth in the Canadian economy over the last two months has significantly exceeded forecasts.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle26596062/

Everyone got their tax refunds.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Missed the debates, but does Harper still have his head in the sand, believing that we are not in a recession and losing jobs? Would be nice to hear if he has some plan or is just going to ignore the situation.

"We"as in calgary are losing jobs. Ontario and Quebec are booming now. In fact our hockey teams and economies have completely reversed themselves with Toronto over the last three years.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

"We"as in calgary are losing jobs. Ontario and Quebec are booming now. In fact our hockey teams and economies have completely reversed themselves with Toronto over the last three years.

In which way is Toronto/Ontario booming? I am not seeing it. I know of people getting laid off left and right. We actually just this morning had a company meeting to talk about the stagnant situation here.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

In which way is Toronto/Ontario booming? I am not seeing it. I know of people getting laid off left and right. We actually just this morning had a company meeting to talk about the stagnant situation here.

According to data from Employment Canada, unemployment in the economic region of Toronto has dropped from 7.8% in February to 6.8% now.
It was 8.3% a year ago.

http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s=1&period=318

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

According to data from Employment Canada, unemployment in the economic region of Toronto has dropped from 7.8% in February to 6.8% now.
It was 8.3% a year ago.

http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s=1&period=318

I don't know if I would call that booming though. I think Alberta is still lower than that in fact (6.0% in August 2015).

I wonder if the improvement in Ontario also has a lot to do with unemployed people leaving the province for work elsewhere.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

According to data from Employment Canada, unemployment in the economic region of Toronto has dropped from 7.8% in February to 6.8% now.
It was 8.3% a year ago.

http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s=1&period=318

Hey just you wait there a minute! What are you doing bringing in actual stats into a good old CP bashing session? I'm sure there's a way to put a negative spin on factual lower employment.

[EldrickOnIce]

If a drop of 1.5% isn't a boom, it's definitely pretty significant.
Unemployment in Calgary is at 6.9%, but has risen more than 2% in 2015.