[News] Flames put Byron and Raymond on waivers. UPD: Byron claimed by Habs

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Raymond on waivers outstanding news, this management group is definitely pointing the team in the right direction.
Main change from this time last year to now.
Hamilton, Bennett, Frolik.
Smid, Glencross, Raymond.
Its not even a close comparison.

Smid plays forward now FYI

Spoiler!

[Pliddy]

While I have no inside information, I would be willing to bet many paycheques that BT has tried everything to trade Raymond and there were no takers. You could send Raymond to the beer leagues at this point and I don't think it would lower his stock any further

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

For one thing, putting Raymond on waivers doesn't accomplish anything. At this time tomorrow, him and his cap hit are still part of the team. And he just became that much harder to trade.

I disagree, it certainly does accomplish something, it eliminates an anchor on the roster and allows a younger, cheaper, hungrier and all-around better player to acquire his spot on the roster.

Today the money doesnt matter and the cap doesnt matter but his occupying a spot and not pulling his weight while someone else languishes in the minors does matter.

I like the move, and I sincerely doubt its a matter of Brad Treliving not trying to move him, we all know how much Brad loves manning the phones, its like his favourite hobby.

[cannon7]

Big message being sent here. Granlund could've been sent down without being waived, but he undoubtedly outplayed both Byron and Raymond.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's just you being ignorant of what they suggest.

Those three stats suggest that among players who played a defensive role on their teams, and yet drove the puck up the ice, Paul Byron was one in a select group of 6. Nothing more, nothing less. That's a unique player. If you're confusing that for "Maybe I should pick up Byron in my hockey pool and trade him for Bergeron or Landeskog?" then that's as dumb as saying "Malkin sucks at faceoffs, therefore he sucks at hockey"

Do the stats actually suggest what you think?

The Flames were terrible overall in terms of zone starts. Literally half the players on the roster who had over 50 minutes at 5 on 5 had defensive zone starts greater than 33%. Most of those had offensive zone starts below 33% as well. So right away, we know that neither of those stats is particularly indicative of much. Byron was actually only 8th on team (6th among forwards) for highest DZFO and 9th overall (7th among forwards) for lowest OZFO.

Likewise, CF%Rel is also only relative to the team. Byron is undoubtedly one of our best puck movers. His CF%Rel of 3.1 was fifth best among regular players - only Gio (5.8), Gaudreau (3.6), Jooris (3.3), and Diaz (3.2) were higher.

However, all we can safely say is that Byron was typically used in defensive situations - along with half the team - and that we typically moved the puck into the offensive zone when he was on the ice. That's it. We can't compare against other teams and claim Byron fits in a group with the other players named.

Because if you want to do that, you're doomed. Out of those six players, Byron had easily the highest team shooting percentage when he was on the ice (10.85% - next closest was Bergeron at 9.41), but he also had easily the worst scoring rate (1.33pts/60; next closest was Stastny at 1.55). Byron was also slightly negative in both GF% (49.3%; 13th on team) and GF%Rel (-4.4; 19th on team; both out of 26 qualifying players)

So for all of his transition ability, it wasn't translating into points. And until the NHL starts basing wins and losses on Corsi events, points are what decide games. Byron is neutral at best in that regard.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Locke

I disagree, it certainly does accomplish something, it eliminates an anchor on the roster and allows a younger, cheaper, hungrier and all-around better player to acquire his spot on the roster.

Today the money doesnt matter and the cap doesnt matter but his occupying a spot and not pulling his weight while someone else languishes in the minors does matter.

I like the move, and I sincerely doubt its a matter of Brad Treliving not trying to move him, we all know how much Brad loves manning the phones, its like his favourite hobby.

I think you missed the point. The original poster stated BT still had work to do and that is a fact. Raymond and his cap hit are still part of the team. Exposing him to waivers does not change that unless you believe he's about to be claimed.

If you do, I have some real estate for you.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think you missed the point. The original poster stated BT still had work to do and that is a fact. Raymond and his cap hit are still part of the team. Exposing him to waivers does not change that unless you believe he's about to be claimed.

If you do, I have some real estate for you.

I agree that Treliving has some work to do, and yes, Raymond and his cap hit are still part of this team, but Raymond is likely going to be assigned to Stockton and his cap hit really doesnt matter.

Its unlikely hes going to get claimed, but my point was exactly what I said, his salary and cap hit dont matter, we have money and at the moment we have cap space, if he isnt assigned to Stockton then that changes things because the only thing that does matter is his roster spot and whether it goes to someone better or not.

Now, tell me about this real estate of yours...

[getbak]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Big message being sent here. Granlund could've been sent down without being waived, but he undoubtedly outplayed both Byron and Raymond.

Granlund was sent down.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Pretty sure he's in Stockton.

I think you meant Pretty Shore....he's in Stockton...

[Strange Brew]

Why doesn't his cap hit matter? The Flames have a little bit of room this year (not enough for a significant in season acquisition) and not enough room to re-sign all their players next year.

So the entire issue is about the cap hit. If Raymond was making $900K, who would care?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Why doesn't his cap hit matter? The Flames have a little bit of room this year (not enough for a significant in season acquisition) and not enough room to re-sign all their players next year.

So the entire issue is about the cap hit. If Raymond was making $900K, who would care?

From what I see the Flames have almost $5M in cap space with Raymond's $900K savings and the roster is basically set so it really isnt going to affect us this season in any way.

Next season, okay, but what can anyone do about that? I'm sure Treliving has been kicking tires and lighting fires, but if the guy clears waivers its pretty obvious that nobody wants him and I dont know if we can/should buy him out eventually.

[JurassicTunga12]

Good move by Treliving. Raymond did not look good at all in camp. Granlund deserved a spot over him 100%.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Locke

From what I see the Flames have almost $5M in cap space with Raymond's $900K savings and the roster is basically set so it really isnt going to affect us this season in any way.

Next season, okay, but what can anyone do about that? I'm sure Treliving has been kicking tires and lighting fires, but if the guy clears waivers its pretty obvious that nobody wants him and I dont know if we can/should buy him out eventually.

Plus next year you very likely have at least $8million in cap space opening up with the inevitable departure of Jones & one of Hiller/Ramo. Things don't look too promising for retaining Hudler either. Which sucks.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Plus next year you very likely have at least $8million in cap space opening up with the inevitable departure of Jones & one of Hiller/Ramo. Things don't look too promising for retaining Hudler either. Which sucks.

It does, but also the cap is going to go up by the PA's 5% veto, so theres that too.

Jones is probably gone, hopefully Jiri takes a reasonable deal and the kids get paid.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Locke

From what I see the Flames have almost $5M in cap space with Raymond's $900K savings and the roster is basically set so it really isnt going to affect us this season in any way.

Next season, okay, but what can anyone do about that? I'm sure Treliving has been kicking tires and lighting fires, but if the guy clears waivers its pretty obvious that nobody wants him and I dont know if we can/should buy him out eventually.

The Flames have something closer to $1.5M in cap space until further assignments are made.

From Hockey's Cap:

Cap room: $2,200,433 (24 man roster, including injuries)
Add Granlund's hit, as he was assigned: +$767,500
Subtract Ortio's hit: - $600,000
Subtract Kulak's hit: - $656,677

Final cap room: $1,711,256

Maybe there's some marginal savings (<$200K) if Granlund is recalled and Raymond or Byron is assigned. Maybe we get some additional room to play with if Brodie or Smid are assigned to LTIR. Even if they are, at most there will temporarily be about $4.6M of cap space.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Locke

It does, but also the cap is going to go up by the PA's 5% veto, so theres that too.

Jones is probably gone, hopefully Jiri takes a reasonable deal and the kids get paid.

The PA used its escalator clause this year, and the cap only went up by 3.5%. And the PA almost didn't use the escalator clause.

A 5% bump up to a $75M cap is no sure thing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

The Flames have something closer to $1.5M in cap space until further assignments are made.

From Hockey's Cap:

Cap room: $2,200,433 (24 man roster, including injuries)
Add Granlund's hit, as he was assigned: +$767,500
Subtract Ortio's hit: - $600,000
Subtract Kulak's hit: - $656,677

Final cap room: $1,711,256

Maybe there's some marginal savings (<$200K) if Granlund is recalled and Raymond or Byron is assigned. Maybe we get some additional room to play with if Brodie or Smid are assigned to LTIR. Even if they are, at most there will temporarily be about $4.6M of cap space.

Yeah, about $4.6M. But other than assignments I think what we see is what we get.

Granted I also think Hiller is gone fairly soon.

At the end of the day though, as long as Raymond is assigned to the AHL the cap and money dont matter because there is literally nothing we can do about either of them, all we can ask for is his roster spot.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

The PA used its escalator clause this year, and the cap only went up by 3.5%. And the PA almost didn't use the escalator clause.

A 5% bump up to a $75M cap is no sure thing.

Okay, thats my bad, I thought the PA's automatic escalator bump was 5%. But whatever amount it is you can rest assured they'll use it every single year they can.

Its basically their mandate.

[Yanda]

Now were gonna missout on Raymonds traditional early season point streak.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Locke

It does, but also the cap is going to go up by the PA's 5% veto, so theres that too.

Jones is probably gone, hopefully Jiri takes a reasonable deal and the kids get paid.

Given the union uses the 5% escalator every year, it is basically neutral as far as the cap is concerned. The union can't use that to raise it any higher. If revenues stall - and a weak Loonie makes that a real possibility - there is a chance the cap itself remains stagnant.