[News] Flames begin contract negotiations with Russell

[ComixZone]

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.75) - Hudler (4.75)
Ferland (.825) - Bennett (.925) - Frolik (4.3)
Bouma (2.2) - Backlund (3.575) - Jooris (1)
Ryamond (3.15) - Stajan (3.125) - Hathaway (.69)
Bollg (1.25)

Giordano (6.75) - Hamilton (5.75)
Brodie (4.65) - Wideman (5.25)
Russell (3.45) - Engelland (2.9)
Kulak (0.66)

= 68.7M with no subtraction of under performing players. So - assume the cap is 72M next year, and we have 3.3M to fill 2 goalie positions.

[GreenLantern2814]

I would predict Russell remains effective well into his 30s. I would predict a Stajan contract - 4 years $14M. At best, he will only ever be the 4th best D on this team. And he's negotiating against Brad Treliving.

Take it and go.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Than comes the question of why he needs to block so many shots?

If that's your skill set why would you question how many shots he blocks?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Than comes the question of why he needs to block so many shots?

Clearly it is because hockey is not a team sport. He is solely responsible for all the shots that the opposing team attempts, and if he were any good, he would have the puck all the time and there would never be any opposing shots to block.

Sorry, but that's what the argument ‘blocked shots = bad defence’ boils down to.

[SeanCharles]

I think you find ways to move Smid, Engelland and Wideman before you even think about not retaining Russell.

I like the idea of Gio, Brodie, Hamilton and Russell anchoring things for years to come as the young prospects join them in the top 7 group.

I will like, even more so, seeing some of the prospects push them down the depth charts. At that point you can think about moving on from a guy like Russell. Right now he is our 4th best Dman, based upon age and ability, so it would be foolish to let him walk just because we have other Dmen, who aren't as good as him, eating up cap.

The guys who aren't part of the Flames long-term plans are Wideman, Engelland and Smid so them being here, for now, can't be an excuse as to letting a guy like Russell walk.

I always knew Treliving would put a high value on Russell so this doesn't surprise me. I'm glad to have a GM that will keep guys who are in the right age group and are, sometimes unknowingly to any other fan base, a big part of the team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Than comes the question of why he needs to block so many shots?

I would suggest it is the way that Hartley wants it. His system is one that encourages shots from the blueline when in the defensive zone...stopping those shots before they can be come rebounds is a big part of his defense.

To me though, more than shot blocking, is KR's leadership abilities and what he brings in that room and on the ice in terms of effort...and its so hard to put a price tag on that stuff and what sort of effect it has on the kids as well as the rest of the team.

[Street Pharmacist]

I really hope the Flames trade Russell this year. He'd get very good value and I believe he's not as important as some here do. Here's a decent second pairing guy, but we already have 4 of those. The money would be better spent up front anyways.

Don't get me wrong, blocking those shots show an incredible amount of skill and character, but in the end the inability to get the puck back is why he had to block so many shots

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Clearly it is because hockey is not a team sport. He is solely responsible for all the shots that the opposing team attempts, and if he were any good, he would have the puck all the time and there would never be any opposing shots to block.

Sorry, but that's what the argument ‘blocked shots = bad defence’ boils down to.

This is really all Chris Butler's fault. He was the leading shot blocker, or close to it, his last year. And the media fed us that garbage for two months, as if we were going to forget that he never once looked like he knew what he was doing the previous two years.

So while blocked shots don't = bad defence, blocked shots being used to justify someone's value = Chris Butler = #### you.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Clearly it is because hockey is not a team sport. He is solely responsible for all the shots that the opposing team attempts, and if he were any good, he would have the puck all the time and there would never be any opposing shots to block.

Sorry, but that's what the argument ‘blocked shots = bad defence’ boils down to.

I'm not saying he is solely responsible but there is a trend that suggests that he spends too much time in the defensive zone.

[Cole436]

If it's not under 3.4 per, he needs to walk. We have too many kids coming up that can fill that spot for cheaper and we need to get some key RFA's signed.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I really hope the Flames trade Russell this year. He'd get very good value and I believe he's not as important as some here do. Here's a decent second pairing guy, but we already have 4 of those. The money would be better spent up front anyways.

Don't get me wrong, blocking those shots show an incredible amount of skill and character, but in the end the inability to get the puck back is why he had to block so many shots

I think Russell's abilities as a puck mover are underrated. And as he showed in the recent 3 on 3 he has decent hands in tight.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

I think Russell's abilities as a puck mover are underrated. And as he showed in the recent 3 on 3 he has decent hands in tight.

He allowed more shots from the slot than almost any defenseman in the league least year. I'm not concerned about his passing. I'm concerned about his ability to get the puck back

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.75) - Hudler (4.75)
Ferland (.825) - Bennett (.925) - Frolik (4.3)
Bouma (2.2) - Backlund (3.575) - Jooris (1)
Ryamond (3.15) - Stajan (3.125) - Hathaway (.69)
Bollg (1.25)

Giordano (6.75) - Hamilton (5.75)
Brodie (4.65) - Wideman (5.25)
Russell (3.45) - Engelland (2.9)
Kulak (0.66)

= 68.7M with no subtraction of under performing players. So - assume the cap is 72M next year, and we have 3.3M to fill 2 goalie positions.

Reasonable analysis. You may be a touch high in Gaudreau and Monahan but low on Hudler. IMO
But you are forgetting Smid which adds about $3m over Kulak.
So without a trade there is no money for any goalies. And you are missing one roster player.

[Fire]

Tread carefully Treliving, don't over commit on a #4 guy.

I would offer 4 years at 3.5 million.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm not saying he is solely responsible but there is a trend that suggests that he spends too much time in the defensive zone.

Sure but would you not agree that if we are going to point at the defense as the cause of not getting the puck out of their own end enough, that his defensive partner would be more to look at in terms of "blame" than Russell?

I like Wideman but he does have defensive liabilities/deficiencies that will cause Russells numbers to suffer in some areas. And again we cant overlook the leadership stuff. Loubardias has often referred to him as a "glue" guy in that group. Those guys matter.

Interesting discussion actually.

[Erick Estrada]

IMO Russell has played well as a Flame but he's the easiest to replace of the top 5 defenseman. He blocks a lot of shots because he often finds himself hemmed in the Flames end. I'm not a Corsi guy but I'm pretty sure he was amongst the Flames worst defensemen last year in advanced stats. IMO Wideman is a better overall defenseman and if one has to go I would hope it be Russell. That said if he would accept a fair deal in the range of $3 million a season I would be all for keeping him but it's important to keep an eye on cap room as some of the young forwards are going to be in for raises in the coming seasons and in a few seasons there's no reason this team can't find a replacement for Russell in the system as one of the young guys you would hope will pan out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Man its so hard to get a handle on what Russell is worth based on what he does. 34 pts is a really nice total for a dman and when you add in the physical sacrifice he makes game in and game out and his now obvious leadership abilities, he can probably ask for a pretty tidy sum of money. I just don't know how much that translates to in real cash. 4M per year for 5 years? More? Less?

Tough one.

Based on the budget the team likely needs to hold to, there isn't much room for another defense man of that salary. Based on a $70M budget the blueline likely needs to shakeout like this.

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

Giordano at $6.75M and Hamilton at $5.75M have the top pair over budget by half a million. Brodie at $4.65M leaves room for a defender with a salary of $2.35M, which would be a salary decrease for Russell. That doesn't include dumping Wideman and Engelland to get those big salaries off the books. It is going to be very difficult to find the money for Russell without having a bottom three defenders who get paid league minimum. That gets more complicated when you start looking at the forwards. Treliving will have to work some magic to retain Russell and keep the budget in line.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Fire

Tread carefully Treliving, don't over commit on a #4 guy.

I would offer 4 years at 3.5 million.

I think that's quite good for both sides actually.

[AltaGuy]

I like the idea of around 3.5M too. To me, he isn't a significantly different DMan from Anton Stralman, just with more dzone starts given our personnel (Stralman's contract is big at 4.5M for five years).

Russell's advanced stats were actually quite good in Columbus. His deployment was vastly different, however. At any rate, I think he's very valuable, a good potential partner for Hamilton, and we could end up with a very good deal.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO Russell has played well as a Flame but he's the easiest to replace of the top 5 defenseman. He blocks a lot of shots because he often finds himself hemmed in the Flames end. I'm not a Corsi guy but I'm pretty sure he was amongst the Flames worst defensemen last year in advanced stats. IMO Wideman is a better overall defenseman and if one has to go I would hope it be Russell. That said if he would accept a fair deal in the range of $3 million a season I would be all for keeping him but it's important to keep an eye on cap room as some of the young forwards are going to be in for raises in the coming seasons and in a few seasons there's no reason this team can't find a replacement for Russell in the system as one of the young guys you would hope will pan out.

Problem being, Wideman is about Gio's age whereas Russell is 4 years younger. The chances of regression for Wideman are greater than the chances of him repeating his career season. Are you willing to bet that he belts out another 50+ pt performance next season while playing the 2nd pairing?

Russell is basically a perfect #5 who can fit anywhere up and down the lineup when asked should injuries or slumps strike, and plays the game the Flames way.

I agree with 4 years - would mean that Frolik and Russell would come off the books same time, almost 8 mill in cap space.