The Calgary Flames 2015-2016 Training Camp Thread

[GioforPM]

I'm not a fan of any of Raymond, Engelland or Bollig's play. Each has tendencies that drive me nuts, though you can't convince me that needing a larger physical defenceman is a thing of the past.

That said, at this time last year some posters wanted Stajan and Wideman gone in the worst way.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Nobody is asking for 6 elite defencemen. We just feel engelland is not very good even as a 6th dman. The reality is he will have to move up in the lineup due to injuries. I don't like how people think because we made e playoffs with him as our 4th dman means he's a good 6th dman for that cap hit. He is quite physical but he doesn't protect anybody out there. Nobody is going to be prevented from doing something by bollig or engelland. Especially not the Kings.

Also he is a burden on whoever he plays with he can't make simple passes and his skating is the worst of the d core. I think we need to get rid of bollig engelland and Raymond. They aren't actually contributing much sadly. Their spots could be taken by younger players like shore, klimchuk, Poirier and granny. I hope granlund makes the team this year and we at least ship out Raymond!

We need to focus on contracts that we could do without. We have a lot of key signings coming up in the near future. I'd like us to make space and keep Hudler and russell who are 2 key players for us imo, we can't afford to not have enough cap when it comes time to pay those 2, but obviously our young guns Come first.


Any of the following:
Stajan, Jones, Raymond, engelland, smid, bollig, hiller/ramo and potentially widemans contracts could be gone in the next 2 seasons.

Of course there are contracts that the Flames could do without, nobody is debating that we NEED Engelland on our team. He's just not a big issue like 2-3 posters are making him out to be. It's our 6/7 defenseman spot and of course we've overpaid for some veterans. At the time it was to stay above the cap-floor. At this time, it's still not the end of the world as those contracts will expire once our young guys need big money.

Just because we 'can' do without them doesn't mean we need to. For instance, to get rid of Raymonds contract we would have to package him with a decent prospect as he has negative value. Or you can just staple him to the press-box and wait for his contract to expire. Scenario A you lose a positive asset. Scenario B you don't.

You're not paying these players salaries so you shouldn't be worried about their cap hit. It's not like we're going to trade Gaudreau because we can't afford to sign him due to veteran contracts..

[saillias]

Raymond, Engelland and Wideman: 2 more years
Monahan, Gaudreau, Hudler: Need new contracts this off-season. Gio's extension kicks in.

So these contracts are not expiring as our young guys need money. They are expiring one year too late.

The only clear relief we're getting this off-season is David Jones 4 mil cap hit. Hudler, Russel, are UFAs but punching above their weight cap-wise. 2 of our goalies are UFA and all 3 goalies need new contracts. It's looking pretty tight already.

[The Yen Man]

I like having Engelland in our bottom pairing, like his physicality. He looked good down the stretch last year and into the playoffs, so I'm not sure why some people are so hard on him. Yes, he's overpaid, but who cares. His salary isn't going to make or break the team.

Plus, he seems like a good locker room guy, which sometimes seems to be overlooked IMO.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by saillias

Raymond, Engelland and Wideman: 2 more years
Monahan, Gaudreau, Hudler: Need new contracts this off-season. Gio's extension kicks in.

So these contracts are not expiring as our young guys need money. They are expiring one year too late.

Hiller 4M expired
Ramo 3.9M expired
Jones 4M expired
Smid 3.5M expired

Wideman could be a trade deadline target to wipe off 5.25M if need be.

Hudler can get a 1M raise and we can sign Gaudreau and Monahan to 6M contracts.

Math!

And how thick are you to think that all 3 goalies will be re-signed? If Ortio becomes a 1A goalie, both Ramo and Hiller will be gone and the Flames will sign a backup. One of those two goalies likely won't even be in the organization in a months time.

[Wastedyouth]

Heaven forbid we actually want all 6 of our defensemen to be able to actually play hockey at an NHL level.

I mean, why would we even want that? Might as well help out the community at large and throw out some make a wish kids as our 6th Dman. Looks good on the team.

[saillias]

Smid is signed through 2016-2017.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Hudler can get a 1M raise and we can sign Gaudreau and Monahan to 6M contracts.

You know this how? You seem to be banking on best case sweetheart scenario. If you're a GM and you're not setting aside at least 7 million for Monahan and Gaudreau you are asking for trouble.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by saillias

Smid is signed through 2016-2017.



You know this how? You seem to be banking on best case sweetheart scenario. If you're a GM and you're not setting aside at least 7 million for Monahan and Gaudreau you are asking for trouble.

My mistake. Regardless, the dollars still fit.

And I know this because 6M is the going rate for elite rookies coming out of an ELC? If you're a GM setting aside at least 7 mil for Monahan and Gaudreau, then you are fired..

You realize Norris candidate Gio was extended for less than 7mil right?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

My mistake. Regardless, the dollars still fit.

And I know this because 6M is the going rate for elite rookies coming out of an ELC? If you're a GM setting aside at least 7 mil for Monahan and Gaudreau, then you are fired..

You realize Norris candidate Gio was extended for less than 7mil right?

Gio would get $10M if he was doing it at the same age as those two

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Heaven forbid we actually want all 6 of our defensemen to be able to actually play hockey at an NHL level.

I mean, why would we even want that? Might as well help out the community at large and throw out some make a wish kids as our 6th Dman. Looks good on the team.

Good idea. And if people don't agree, we can say they "fill a role" or some other vague justification.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Gio would get $10M if he was doing it at the same age as those two

I agree that age is a factor which makes it a less than ideal comparison.

Calder winner Huberdeau just signed a 2 year bridge contract at 6.5M per. So tell me why Monahan and Gaudreau are looking for at least 7mil for a non-bridge contract?

Eberle and Hall both signed 6x6 contracts.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Calder winner Huberdeau just signed a 2 year bridge contract at 6.5M per. So tell me why Monahan and Gaudreau are looking for at least 7mil for a non-bridge contract?

Maybe because after three years, he's never shown he'll ever even accomplish what Gaudreau and Monahan have already? Seriously. You think a guy who hasn't scored more than 15 goals is a comparable??? That's your rebuttal???

[MissTeeks]

Has anyone mentioned that the preseason is too long?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Maybe because after three years, he's never shown he'll ever even accomplish what Gaudreau and Monahan have already? Seriously. You think a guy who hasn't scored more than 15 goals is a comparable??? That's your rebuttal???

Florida isn't a top-5 scoring team like Calgary so obviously he won't be scoring as many points.

Duchene racks up the points and his extension was for 6mil as well.

Feel free to show me any comparables that suggest Monahan and Gaudreau will be making north of 7 mil.

[red sky]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I agree that age is a factor which makes it a less than ideal comparison.

Calder winner Huberdeau just signed a 2 year bridge contract at 6.5M per. So tell me why Monahan and Gaudreau are looking for at least 7mil for a non-bridge contract?

Eberle and Hall both signed 6x6 contracts.

Per year? No that is total.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by red sky

Per year? No that is total.

Right, that did sound high for Huberdeau even as a bridge contract. So same age and 10 less points than Gaudreau last year, yet he's worth less than half as much as Gaudreau apparently.

[vilzeh]

If they want to make 7million plus they should be getting at least 65+ points for every year now, and Monahan better stay as a 30 goal scorer.

I seriously, as much as I want to can't see Monahan topping his points from last year, not goals anyways.

Though I hope I'm wrong!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Hiller 4M expired
Ramo 3.9M expired
Jones 4M expired
Smid 3.5M expired

Wideman could be a trade deadline target to wipe off 5.25M if need be.

Hudler can get a 1M raise and we can sign Gaudreau and Monahan to 6M contracts.

Math!

And how thick are you to think that all 3 goalies will be re-signed? If Ortio becomes a 1A goalie, both Ramo and Hiller will be gone and the Flames will sign a backup. One of those two goalies likely won't even be in the organization in a months time.

Wow, if you are going to start screaming "Math!" and calling people thick, you really should bring more than this to the table.

As already pointed out, Smid's contract does not expire.
I would hope the Flames still plan to have 2 NHL goalies next year.
I guess you are assuming we let Russell walk for nothing or re-sign to exact same money?
Where are the $'s for Giordano's increased salary?

And this talk of dealing Wideman at the deadline. Do you really think if the Flames are in a playoff spot or even battling for the division that they are going to trade Wideman for picks and prospects in a salary dump?

[Conroy4Mayor]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Of course there are contracts that the Flames could do without, nobody is debating that we NEED Engelland on our team. He's just not a big issue like 2-3 posters are making him out to be. It's our 6/7 defenseman spot and of course we've overpaid for some veterans. At the time it was to stay above the cap-floor. At this time, it's still not the end of the world as those contracts will expire once our young guys need big money.

Just because we 'can' do without them doesn't mean we need to. For instance, to get rid of Raymonds contract we would have to package him with a decent prospect as he has negative value. Or you can just staple him to the press-box and wait for his contract to expire. Scenario A you lose a positive asset. Scenario B you don't.

You're not paying these players salaries so you shouldn't be worried about their cap hit. It's not like we're going to trade Gaudreau because we can't afford to sign him due to veteran contracts..

Actually, I am debating the need for Engelland on this team. I think some others are too.

The Flames can't get better unless they replace their poorest performers. If we trot out the same team, we will see the same results. Part of Treveling's job is to determine who is holding the team back. I hope he thinks it's Engelland. You might disagree, but I'd be interested to know which regulars you thought were worse last year than Bollig, Engelland and Raymond.

[red sky]

Originally Posted by Conroy4Mayor

Actually, I am debating the need for Engelland on this team. I think some others are too.

The Flames can't get better unless they replace their poorest performers. If we trot out the same team, we will see the same results. Part of Treveling's job is to determine who is holding the team back. I hope he thinks it's Engelland. You might disagree, but I'd be interested to know which regulars you thought were worse last year than Bollig, Engelland and Raymond.

Totally not true. If your best players are young and developing then you will not see the same results. Weird statement...