Florida Panthers 10 hour ticket blitz for opening night.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Joborule

The Panthers are definitely going to be the first team to relocate in the near future. Seattle should be ready by then. Unless a wild card like Milwaukee, Hartford, or Kansas City puts a serious bid.

What makes Florida more likely than Phoenix?

[dino7c]

good thing our high ticket prices pay them rev-share

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

What makes Florida more likely than Phoenix?

Phoenix has had ownership issues, and have had commitments locally as well from the league to keep it there. Whereas Florida has been stable for the most part, but still can't establish a grounded fanbase. Sure, they haven't been that successful on the ice consistently, but they have been in the playoffs in recent years, that they should be able to get a bit more butts in the crowd than they do now.

I'm not saying Arizona won't move in the near future as well, but I think when the Panthers move, it won't be done with much kicking and screaming, and more of a simple pack up bags and go like Atlanta to Winnipeg was.

[BigT112]

Originally Posted by dino7c

good thing our high ticket prices pay them rev-share

Revenue sharing saved the Flames, Oilers and Canucks in the 90s from going the way of the Jets and Nordiques. Can't really say anything bad about it. While I think the Panthers should be moved, can't fault them for trying to get butts into the seats. It's gotta get old when out of town media comments on your empty building nightly.

[Resolute 14]

FWIW, the Panthers had a 90% renewal rate on their season tickets from last year, and added 2000 new STHs. So they should actually show improvement this year.

One of the other big things about the Panthers is that the owners lose a ton of money on the team, but make a fair bit of it back via their management contract for the arena. As is usually the case, the bigger picture may not be as terrible as we assume. But like Atlanta and Phoenix, the future of the Panthers will depend almost exclusively on the existence of an owner willing to operate a team in that market. There is literally nothing a bunch of fan whining about the attendance can do to change that.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I would have thought Philly would have been a reasonable draw for them.

$10 is nuts, how many season ticket holders are there? The danger with this sort of thing is that it would piss of season ticket holders if done on a regular basis. (assuming season tickets aren't going that cheap).

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Phoenix has had ownership issues, and have had commitments locally as well from the league to keep it there. Whereas Florida has been stable for the most part, but still can't establish a grounded fanbase. Sure, they haven't been that successful on the ice consistently, but they have been in the playoffs in recent years, that they should be able to get a bit more butts in the crowd than they do now.

I'm not saying Arizona won't move in the near future as well, but I think when the Panthers move, it won't be done with much kicking and screaming, and more of a simple pack up bags and go like Atlanta to Winnipeg was.

As I understand it, the owners in Florida have exclusive rights to the arena which makes them a lot more money than the Panthers lose. However part of that deal is that the primary tennant is a hockey team.
No hockey team = no areana deal = no profit overall.

So yeah, the Panters as a team are lsoing money, but they are a requirement for the larger business to make money, so they are a lot more stable than most people think.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

^I've tried to get a name change from the mods, but they refuse.

However, Flameswin gets a change to Jayswin in the blink of an eye.

C'mon, mods.

[topfiverecords]

Here's next years promotion.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

FWIW, the Panthers had a 90% renewal rate on their season tickets from last year, and added 2000 new STHs. So they should actually show improvement this year.

One of the other big things about the Panthers is that the owners lose a ton of money on the team, but make a fair bit of it back via their management contract for the arena. As is usually the case, the bigger picture may not be as terrible as we assume. But like Atlanta and Phoenix, the future of the Panthers will depend almost exclusively on the existence of an owner willing to operate a team in that market. There is literally nothing a bunch of fan whining about the attendance can do to change that.

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

As I understand it, the owners in Florida have exclusive rights to the arena which makes them a lot more money than the Panthers lose. However part of that deal is that the primary tennant is a hockey team.
No hockey team = no areana deal = no profit overall.

So yeah, the Panters as a team are lsoing money, but they are a requirement for the larger business to make money, so they are a lot more stable than most people think.

I've heard of this, but does anyone have an article source for this? I wonder just how much money they make by keeping the Panthers operational there, despite not getting much game-to-game revenue.

[Jay Random]

Last season I was hearing that the Panthers were actually losing money faster than the arena made money, and the owners had applied to the county to renegotiate the deal so they would no longer be required to put a hockey team there.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Last season I was hearing that the Panthers were actually losing money faster than the arena made money, and the owners had applied to the county to renegotiate the deal so they would no longer be required to put a hockey team there.

This is all true, but the team made it seem much worse than it actually was, and Florida residents are really stingy when it comes to paying for community projects, so it's no shock at all that it didn't happen. It was a play by ownership to try and get more money out of the community since the gates admissions weren't amazing yet.

I suspect that the team will draw better this year with someone like Jagr to market along with the young 3 of Huberdeau, Barkov, and Bjugstad....Oh yeah, and Ekblad. Last year they relied heavily on Luongo for marketing as he was the only marketable player. Now people know who Willie Mitchell is and get excited about him. It just takes longer to market the team here because most people completely wrote them off.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Phoenix has had ownership issues, and have had commitments locally as well from the league to keep it there. Whereas Florida has been stable for the most part, but still can't establish a grounded fanbase. Sure, they haven't been that successful on the ice consistently, but they have been in the playoffs in recent years, that they should be able to get a bit more butts in the crowd than they do now.

I'm not saying Arizona won't move in the near future as well, but I think when the Panthers move, it won't be done with much kicking and screaming, and more of a simple pack up bags and go like Atlanta to Winnipeg was.

Just one time since 1999/2000, which was the 2011-2012 season...so already 4 years ago. That was the year they threw a bunch of veterans together with some guys that nobody else wanted, everyone had surprisingly good years, and they somehow ended up 1st in the Southeast Division with just 94 points. Not exactly a good enough season to overcome a decade of ineptitude when you're out of the playoffs the next season.

People quickly forget that the Flames had difficulty during the Young Guns era when it came to filling the building. That's in Calgary...now think about how it would go over in Florida with much, much less on-ice success. It's easy to make fun of the Panthers half-empty building, but show me any team that wouldn't be in the same situation with those same results.

I've talked to a lot of people down here, and they're just fed up with watching a losing team. they really liked the Panthers in the 90s, but there's been nothing to even cheer for since then. Go to the stadium and there are still shrines to players from the 90s, and everyone still talks about Pavel Bure's time as being memorable, but they haven't had any marketable talent or any success to build a fanbase on.

It's not like South Florida is ever going to be a hotbed of hockey like Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston, or Chicago, so let's get that clear. But success puts butts in seats, and until there is sustained success here it will always be a challenge to fill the building. End of story.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I've heard of this, but does anyone have an article source for this? I wonder just how much money they make by keeping the Panthers operational there, despite not getting much game-to-game revenue.

The numbers are old, but: http://www.defendingbigd.com/2012/11...-money-revenue

And the team owner would certainly like to use the team losses to get an even better deal from Broward County, even if the arena company is profitable because of the Panthers. Downloading costs is just good business. But what sticks in my mind about the Panthers and their viability is that it was noted at least once last year that Broward County has done some studies to determine the financial viability of the facility would be without the Panthers.

[Mr.Coffee]

the Panthers are in Sunrise, Florida. When I was in Miami, my brothers and I went to a game down there vs. the Penguins and it was one of the first visits by Crosby. The building was largely empty and the fans in the building didn't even know what hockey was. I remember they would broadcast the rules on the jumbotron, like what offsides are for example- and the number of scalpers outside the building was hilarious (lots, and you could secure tickets for like $5.

I recall the drive to get there from Miami was a little long, and traffic was a bit of an issue. I remember thinking it was sort of out of the way and if they had a way to get the arena in downtown Miami they'd be much better off.

Honestly, I think arena location is a huge deal. Look at Phoenix as another example... you need a place that's relatively easily accessible. It was annoying having to drive a ways out to get to that Panther game.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by BigT112

Revenue sharing saved the Flames, Oilers and Canucks in the 90s from going the way of the Jets and Nordiques. Can't really say anything bad about it. While I think the Panthers should be moved, can't fault them for trying to get butts into the seats. It's gotta get old when out of town media comments on your empty building nightly.

You honestly think the league would have lost half the Canadian teams? besides that was before the salary cap. If you can't be make it work in this system than GTFO, Flames included

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You honestly think the league would have lost half the Canadian teams? besides that was before the salary cap. If you can't be make it work in this system than GTFO, Flames included

Ken King himself has said the Flames would have left town – or folded. There was simply no business case for operating a small-market Canadian NHL team with a 65-cent dollar and no salary cap.

As for ‘GTFO’: Revenue sharing is part of the system now, every bit as much as the salary cap. If you don't like it, maybe you're the one who should GTFO.

[BigT112]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You honestly think the league would have lost half the Canadian teams? besides that was before the salary cap. If you can't be make it work in this system than GTFO, Flames included

Yes, I do believe they would have lost half the Canadian teams without revenue sharing. Many people close to the Flames said they were going to move or fold when the Canadian dollar was at 65 cents. Maybe you don't remember the "Save the Flames" season ticket drive from the late 90s. Gary Bettman fought hard to get revenue sharing to save the struggling Canadian teams, something we tend to forget.

Now it's helping to keep the Panthers and other teams afloat, and I have no problem with that. Just because there is a salary cap, doesn't mean teams should be rolling in money. It balances the playing field and makes the league healthier as a whole. If you really hate revenue sharing so much, stop paying for tickets. It's simple.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You honestly think the league would have lost half the Canadian teams? besides that was before the salary cap. If you can't be make it work in this system than GTFO, Flames included

Yes, we would have. Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa were all hanging by threads. And they all would have been gone without things like revenue sharing. Trying to defend your argument with "that was before the salary cap" doesn't change the fact that your smugness is misplaced given you are casting stones from your glass house.

The system is such that we are paying the revenue sharing money regardless. It doesn't actually matter who receives it.

[CroFlames]

How quickly some folks forget. Clubs and leagues go through cycles of good times and bad. As many have mentioned already, many Canadian teams with die hard fan bases struggled to stay, including the Flames. I remember well the lottery to save the Flames & Oilers.

Now the Flames and Oilers basically print money, and are now supporting franchises that can't do it themselves. It's cyclical. However, cases can be made to relocate perpetual money losers like Phoenix when there are better options available like potentially QC, Vegas, or Seattle.

At the end of the day though, does it really matter which billionaire your dollars go to? Whether there is rev-sharing or not, you purchase entertainment at a certain dollar amount. If those dollars get spread out, what is the big deal? In fact, you'll likely get more entertaining hockey with rev-share than without.