Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

and I suspect that you are grossly mistaken.

OK? It seems a bit unfair not to identify which of my suggestions you take issue with. It makes it difficult to discuss it further.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think Trudeau held his own but the stammering and stuttering he gets caught doing doesn't make him look strong.

As petty as it sounds, his sharp breath intakes were distracting me and it made him sound excitable.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I hope the consortium is back next time. The debates this go around were either terrible or via only being broadcast on CPAC virtually unwatched or both. IMO the best debates were the Global debate and the French debate.

I would say the exact opposite, the best debates were the Macleans and this one, both were better than the old consortium debates. The French debate in particular was horrid with 5 people yelling over each other for long stretches.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Pretty sure a big part of why Ontario lost manufacturing jobs was because the provincial government retired coal plants and drove their electricity costs through the roof...

Yes I agree. Electricity rates in this province are obscene. It doesn't help living in Southern Ontario where air conditioning is essential pretty much May through September.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I suspect by pumping quite a lot of greenhouse gases into the air (in part anyway). I also suspect that this is why people in poor countries who pump far less greenhouse gases into the air, are far poorer, and are far more likely to be negatively affected by global warming might resent Canada's rather embarrassing greenhouse gas record.

So if we severely limit that strength how do we remain one of the wealthiest nations on the planet and be able to finance such change? Why is the onus on us to enact such change in a global economy while not holding other nations to the same standard?

Our "rather embarrassing" record is still impeccable when compared to other "have" 1st world countries.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Makarov

OK? It seems a bit unfair not to identify which of my suggestions you take issue with. It makes it difficult to discuss it further.

I take issue with your speculation that people in third world countries resent Canada on climate change.

Please provide proof of your support.

In my experience, people in third world countries are concerned with:

Food
Clothing
Shelter
Corrupt government
Crime/War/Civil Unrest
Disease
Oppression based upon personal characteristics and beliefs

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

So if we severely limit that strength how do we remain one of the wealthiest nations on the planet and be able to finance such change? Why is the onus on us to enact such change in a global economy while not holding other nations to the same standard?

Our "rather embarrassing" record is still impeccable when compared to other "have" 1st world countries.

I think that we should hold other states to the same standard.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I take issue with your speculation that people in third world countries resent Canada on climate change.

Please provide proof of your support.

In my experience, people in third world countries are concerned with:

Food
Clothing
Shelter
Corrupt government
Crime/War/Civil Unrest
Disease
Oppression based upon personal characteristics and beliefs

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/07/14/...global-threat/

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I think that we should hold other states to the same standard.

What standard is that?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

So if we severely limit that strength how do we remain one of the wealthiest nations on the planet and be able to finance such change? Why is the onus on us to enact such change in a global economy while not holding other nations to the same standard?

Our "rather embarrassing" record is still impeccable when compared to other "have" 1st world countries.

Impeccable?! The only developed states with worse emissions records than Canada are:

Qatar;
Kuwait;
Brunei;
UAE;
Luxembourg;
Australia;
United States;
Saudi Arabia.

And as one can see, I am using the term "developed state" rather broadly. Also, these numbers are from 2009 and so don't account for increased emissions from rapid development of the oil sands between then and now.

SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons_per_capita

EDIT: these are only carbon dioxide emissions, but hey, I'm not writing a doctoral thesis here.

[killer_carlson]

LOL

Wow.

Having witnessed, in person, protests against government corruption which resulted in Peruvian government rolling the tanks through Lima, I will say that I find these results very surprising. I would love to see where in Lima the pool of 1000 adults was taken, and how many were straight at the universities.


Even if you accept it to be true, which I do not, that is still a long stretch away from being "embarassed" by Canada's actions.

[flylock shox]

Pretty strong performance from the PM, if only because he came across as the most statesmanly.

Mulcair was alright, and had one good zinger at JT, but generally needs to lay off the barbs unless it's a parry. It lowers him, at least in my eyes.

Trudeau was the weakest tonight. His energy is always high, but he needs to hold back a bit and not try to squeeze everything he wants to say into each 30 second segment. He'd be far better off picking his battles.

On the whole, I wouldn't expect this debate to be too critical, as foreign policy isn't the area I suspect most voters are concerned with (or understand) anyway. Canada's a minnow in international waters, and I think most Canadians accept that and are more concerned with things at home.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

What standard is that?

Well, that is of course a complicated question that has legitimately generated much debate. However, it seems to be a bit of a moving of the goalposts for the purposes of this debate. Unless of course you are conceding that Canada's climate change record is a legitimate election issue?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

LOL

Wow.

Having witnessed, in person, protests against government corruption which resulted in Peruvian government rolling the tanks through Lima, I will say that I find these results very surprising. I would love to see where in Lima the pool of 1000 adults was taken, and how many were straight at the universities.


Even if you accept it to be true, which I do not, that is still a long stretch away from being "embarassed" by Canada's actions.

So you still contest that it would be absurd for a Canadian to be embarrassed by Canada's climate change record (to the point that it shouldn't even be a legitimate election issue)?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I would say the exact opposite, the best debates were the Macleans and this one, both were better than the old consortium debates. The French debate in particular was horrid with 5 people yelling over each other for long stretches.

Content was good but the viewers ship low. What good is a debate if almost no one sees it?

[User Name]

Does anyone know of a link to watch it online? Would like to see it later tonight. Thanks!

[Parallex]

With regards to this debate I think the only loser was Mulclair... he's the only one I walked away from the debate with a worse opinion then when I walked in.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I think that we should hold other states to the same standard.

How is Canada going to do that? Canada can reduce their contribution to global emissions from 2% to 1.5%. It would result in serious damage to the economy and will make virtually no positive difference to the climate. Though I guess we can pat ourselves on the back while we stand in line for the food bank.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Makarov

2% of the emissions in the world. 0.4% of the people in world. One of the wealthiest countries in the world.

Its hardly preposterous to argue that Canada is badly failing its duties with respect to climate change.

You and this per capita nonsense....over and over.

It means nothing...nadda....nil...zero.

We live in a cold climate over a vast area of land. OF COURSE our output will be higher than others.

But beyond all that....Trudeau is just a parrot of talking points and this is but another one.

Does anyone truly believe that a 2% contributor o this global issue is the one country everyone is frustrated with and mad at? Anyone with any ability to think critically and apply common sense knows the answer, and it ain't what Pierre JR. is espousing.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You and this per capita nonsense....over and over.

It means nothing...nadda....nil...zero.

We live in a cold climate over a vast area of land. OF COURSE our output will be higher than others.

But beyond all that....Trudeau is just a parrot of talking points and this is but another one.

Does anyone truly believe that a 2% contributor o this global issue is the one country everyone is frustrated with and mad at? Anyone with any ability to think critically and apply common sense knows the answer, and it ain't what Pierre JR. is espousing.

So the test for when climate change can become a legitimate election issue is only when we reach the point that Canada is widely reviled as the biggest climate change villain in the entire world?