Buying a Suit

[the_only_turek_fan]

Check out Pinestripes in TD mall. I got one there last summer for a $169 bucks. And they had a deal going on where if you buy a suit, you get any shirt, any tie, any belt, any pair or socks, and any pair of shoes from their shoe wall for free. It was one of the best deals I have ever seen. The suit is pretty good, and I got like 300 dollars of stuff for around 200 after all the alterations.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by looooob

there was a good related thread a few months ago...someone could probably find it

That was a topic that I started: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=27197

I've just started a career in law, so I was kind of in the same boat... however, I have to disagree with this:

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

###### bags or not, law firms, espeically corporate firms downtown don't want people running around in cheap suits. Like it or not, that's just true. You may not notice now, but it's easy to tell the difference between low end stuff and high end stuff, it's not as simple as putting a recognizable brand on a piece of cloth.

I think it definitely depends on the law firm; where I'm at, I'm very comfortable knowing that my employment there is contingent on the work that I do, not the threads on my back. Perhaps it's because I'm younger so I'm not expected to be all GQ right away; I also rarely ever meet clients (the rich, important ones, anyways).

[Flames in 07]

I think it definitely depends on the law firm; where I'm at, I'm very comfortable knowing that my employment there is contingent on the work that I do, not the threads on my back. Perhaps it's because I'm younger so I'm not expected to be all GQ right away; I also rarely ever meet clients (the rich, important ones, anyways).[/quote]

If your not in front of clients it doesn't matter. That's the million dollar question in law. Also, employment or performance is never dependant on what 'threads are on my back', however at big firms anyway, part of your performance is being able to judge things that are appropriate ... mannerisms, how you communicate, what you wear etc... If there is any place where that matters its corporate law.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

If your not in front of clients it doesn't matter. That's the million dollar question in law. Also, employment or performance is never dependant on what 'threads are on my back', however at big firms anyway, part of your performance is being able to judge things that are appropriate ... mannerisms, how you communicate, what you wear etc... If there is any place where that matters its corporate law.

Fair enough. I definitely agree that 'holding' yourself in a professional manner in the office is a big thing; however, clothes are just part of that... IMO, it's a lot more important how you communcate with other lawyers/staff (as you mentioned). Don't get me wrong -- I always try to 'look the part', but I'm just saying there are a lot more important things to worry about.

BTW, I do work in one of the big corporate firms... let's just say (at least in the department I'm currently in), I'm pretty sure the other people aren't discussing what brand of suits they're wearing!

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

heh, ya I guess. BM's are way over priced for the car you get. Honda Accords are better quality. Not as cool a logo though I guess.

yeah, and nowhere near as fun to drive. don't confuse quality with enjoyment.
BMW's are amazingly fun to drive and have amazing agility and response. Sure, the build-quality is not as high as a Japanese car....but damn is it ever a pleasure to drive.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Fair enough. I definitely agree that 'holding' yourself in a professional manner in the office is a big thing; however, clothes are just part of that... IMO, it's a lot more important how you communcate with other lawyers/staff (as you mentioned). Don't get me wrong -- I always try to 'look the part', but I'm just saying there are a lot more important things to worry about.

BTW, I do work in one of the big corporate firms... let's just say (at least in the department I'm currently in), I'm pretty sure the other people aren't discussing what brand of suits they're wearing!

agreed, clothes are just part of that. And everyone knows that young people are poor. Saying that I'd never do anything to stand out ... and Moores suit would stand out.

We hire these kinds of firms all the time, and the young lawyers seem to blow their brains out on work gear.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Check out Pinestripes in TD mall. I got one there last summer for a $169 bucks. And they had a deal going on where if you buy a suit, you get any shirt, any tie, any belt, any pair or socks, and any pair of shoes from their shoe wall for free. It was one of the best deals I have ever seen. The suit is pretty good, and I got like 300 dollars of stuff for around 200 after all the alterations.

That was where I went before going into Tip Top and getting my suit. I thought the quality of stuff over there was horrible. You could see the stitching on everything there. Not impressed.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by FireInTheHole

What's wrong with BMWs??

I've met many a BMW owner that was surprised by the fact that their car started falling apart after one year.

"But, but, it's a German car! It's gotta be good!?!"

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Fair enough. I definitely agree that 'holding' yourself in a professional manner in the office is a big thing; however, clothes are just part of that... IMO, it's a lot more important how you communcate with other lawyers/staff (as you mentioned). Don't get me wrong -- I always try to 'look the part', but I'm just saying there are a lot more important things to worry about.

BTW, I do work in one of the big corporate firms... let's just say (at least in the department I'm currently in), I'm pretty sure the other people aren't discussing what brand of suits they're wearing!

The problem is that if you and the guy next to you are anywhere near equal in all of those other areas the better dressed guy (and i mean 'better dressed', not 'flashy') WILL get/keep/obtain the better jobs.

For an extra couple hundred bucks you insure you hold the tie breaker! How much is that tie breaker worth to you? It could be worth tens of thousands of dollars a year!

You should always look the part of the job you WANT, not the one you have....



Claeren.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Someone mentioned a suit store on 14th street and 26th ave SW that sells 2nd hand Hugo Boss, Armani, etc suits for dirt cheap. I can't remember the name of the place but it's supposedly pretty good.

It is called "the Place for Men" and I think the name of the Lady who runs it is Ellen.

They have consignment as well as designer samples, about $500 - $1,000.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Claeren

The problem is that if you and the guy next to you are anywhere near equal in all of those other areas the better dressed guy (and i mean 'better dressed', not 'flashy') WILL get/keep/obtain the better jobs.

For an extra couple hundred bucks you insure you hold the tie breaker! How much is that tie breaker worth to you? It could be worth tens of thousands of dollars a year!

You should always look the part of the job you WANT, not the one you have....



Claeren.

Or you just make sure you don't need the tiebreaker by being a more qualified candidate than the guy next to you. I understand the importance of making an impression but I don't think many companies base their promotion decisions on the quality of suit being worn.

[Kjesse]

A suit will last you, on average 5 years. So don't cheap out unless you truly are getting a nice suit-- and I have seen some very nice suits at the $500 mark.

If you're around suits all day, it its not hard to tell the low end from the mid range to the high end. At first they might look all the same, but after a while you get a knack for separating the Tip Tops from the Rosens.

Private tailors are also a good option, they can really help round out your wardrobe too.

I tend to spend about $800 to $1100 per suit, which is in the mid range, and that's about right for me. Some people I work with spend north of $2000 per suit, and let me tell you, most of the time you can really tell, the fabric is really amazing at the higher the price levels. I simply can not afford to have a wardrobe full of $2000 suits.

Does it really matter? The sub-$500 suits can be nice, I think it depends on how important it is to you and what you do.

Grafton is great for the "entry level mid range", they have nice stuff at good prices, a great place for a young professional.

I should add that the best suit I ever bought was $450.00 and I bought it in Medicine Hat. Italian fabric with a Canadian manufacturer. I received more positive comments on that suit than any others.

PS. Stay away from Boss suits, I've had a couple and they really aren't worth the price. I stopped buying anything Boss about 6 years ago.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Or you just make sure you don't need the tiebreaker by being a more qualified candidate than the guy next to you. I understand the importance of making an impression but I don't think many companies base their promotion decisions on the quality of suit being worn.

Yeah, but if you are all very qualified and very hard working law students (as an example) the differences in performance can be minute or even undetectable at such an early point in the career.

Appearence is an important fall back in terms of perception of anyone by anyone.

And i am not talking about solely the quality of the suit. A slightly higher end men's wear store will offer many other services and advantages. They tend to have more limited quantities for a more unique look, often have better trained staff offering better and longer service and therefor informed input into your buying process including the selection they show you, matching, trends, etc. They likely offer better and more personalized tailoring, a larger overall selection, more custom order availability, and so on. The entire package should offer a more complete look that should pay off in any professional environment. If you are not getting that sort of premium service and/or effect from your wardrobe i suggest changing preferred clothiers.


Claeren.

PS - I agree with Delgar mostly. Adding to it, i think the step between the <$500 suit to the $800-$1100 range is the most valuable and the easiest to spot. After that it is just gravy. But getting a fantastic suit in that middle range can go a long ways further then one from the lower range...

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Table 5

yeah, and nowhere near as fun to drive. don't confuse quality with enjoyment.
BMW's are amazingly fun to drive and have amazing agility and response. Sure, the build-quality is not as high as a Japanese car....but damn is it ever a pleasure to drive.

I dunno, I'd have to say Accords are more fun to drive.

Seriously, they have poor engines, pool leather, consumers report says they suck. Bad Cars

I drive a Acura TL, way better of the line, I saved 20k and my resale value will be better.

[Claeren]

I LOVE my 2003 Accord EX-L, i still can't believe it is 'just' a Honda brand, family car...

But i wouldn't scoff at a new BMW if your buying though!


Claeren.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Claeren

I LOVE my 2003 Accord EX-L, i still can't believe it is 'just' a Honda brand, family car...

But i wouldn't scoff at a new BMW if your buying though!


Claeren.

heh, exactly, the only bmw I'd like is a free one. That way I don't have all that buyers remorse when it breaks down.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Claeren

The problem is that if you and the guy next to you are anywhere near equal in all of those other areas the better dressed guy (and i mean 'better dressed', not 'flashy') WILL get/keep/obtain the better jobs.

For an extra couple hundred bucks you insure you hold the tie breaker! How much is that tie breaker worth to you? It could be worth tens of thousands of dollars a year!

You should always look the part of the job you WANT, not the one you have....

That's true 'theoretically', but I guess it's a perspective thing... I won't argue that there's a difference between designers, materials, etc because I'm sure there is. But personally, I know that the only way I'm going to have a future with my employer is whether I can produce the goods. It won't matter if I'm rollin' in Armani if I can't do the job as well as (if not better than) my counterparts. Plain and simple.

Down the road I might be more conscious about this kind of thing, but for a guy just starting out (like the guy who started the thread), I'd say to look professional and feel comfortable, and you'll be in position to do your best work. If it takes a $1000+ suit for you to do that, then by all means. Just my $0.02.

Also, I'll repeat that it depends on your workplace... I've never worked for someone where I've felt I wasn't adequately dressed or that I wasn't reaching a certain standard. If I did, then perhaps that's not the kind of environment I want to be spending 8+ hours a day in. It's also a personal thing... I know that I'll never 'look the part' like some other people do, regardless of what I wear. Some people just grew up in nicer neighborhoods, with better schools, speak more eloquently than I do, and have more connections. But that's not how I got to where I am, and I'm not going to change because I'm afraid some stiff down the hall will scoff at what I wear (for the record, I got hired wearing a Moore's suit at the interview)

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

That's true 'theoretically', but I guess it's a perspective thing... I won't argue that there's a difference between designers, materials, etc because I'm sure there is. But personally, I know that the only way I'm going to have a future with my employer is whether I can produce the goods. It won't matter if I'm rollin' in Armani if I can't do the job as well as (if not better than) my counterparts. Plain and simple.

Down the road I might be more conscious about this kind of thing, but for a guy just starting out (like the guy who started the thread), I'd say to look professional and feel comfortable, and you'll be in position to do your best work. If it takes a $1000+ suit for you to do that, then by all means. Just my $0.02.

Also, I'll repeat that it depends on your workplace... I've never worked for someone where I've felt I wasn't adequately dressed or that I wasn't reaching a certain standard. If I did, then perhaps that's not the kind of environment I want to be spending 8+ hours a day in. It's also a personal thing... I know that I'll never 'look the part' like some other people do, regardless of what I wear. Some people just grew up in nicer neighborhoods, with better schools, speak more eloquently than I do, and have more connections. But that's not how I got to where I am, and I'm not going to change because I'm afraid some stiff down the hall will scoff at what I wear (for the record, I got hired wearing a Moore's suit at the interview)

New Armani suits that are real are not anywhere close to $1000 - they cost FAR more.

I am talking about the step just above chain-store, entry market, suits. Where the quality and uniqueness and such goes up dramatically for only a couple of hundred extra dollars.

Above that is another step, like much of what Holt Renfrew, Harry Rosen, and Henry Singer have, but then you are paying additonal hundreds and even thousands but for better known brand names, advertising budgets, and prime retail rents instead of outright quality.


I bet a lot of people here who don't agree with spending a bit more on their wardrobe drive trucks or SUV's. Why do they? Why spend such a big premium? Because it makes you feel safer on the road? Status? That feeling you get driving a big beast of a car? Not wanting to look wimpy in an econo-car?

Well IMHO, having a wardrobe nicer and more varied then your peers is a lot more valuable then having a big truck/SUV because it is what carry's you through a first impression, seals a new deal, gets you noticed by bosses and co-workers and the hottie in the copy room, etc all for FAR less money then the gas and cost premium of that big truck or SUV. Probably for thousands and maybe tens of thousands of less dollars.

Lastly, yes it depends on the workplace but he already said it was a suit type corporate/legal place. It is not some logistics or construction company office in a suburban office park... if it was i would give different advice...


Claeren.

[octothorp]

Another option is getting suits tailor-made. Usually with stores like Harry Rosen and Henry Singer, the way it works is that you can pick a cut by a designer, then pick a fabric from the same designer's collection, and the shop will have the suit made for you; so you know the fit is going to be perfect. For many designers, it's actually cheaper doing this than buying a suit off the rack ($1200 - $1800 range depending on style and fabric, compared with around $3000 for a similar one of the rack). I've had one suit (Ermenegildo Zegna) done like this (for my wedding, but I chose a design I'd get a lot of use out of), and it's fantastic. I had mine done at Singer, only because I went to Rosen first and found the salesmen far too snotty for my liking.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Another option is getting suits tailor-made. Usually with stores like Harry Rosen and Henry Singer, the way it works is that you can pick a cut by a designer, then pick a fabric from the same designer's collection, and the shop will have the suit made for you; so you know the fit is going to be perfect. For many designers, it's actually cheaper doing this than buying a suit off the rack ($1200 - $1800 range depending on style and fabric, compared with around $3000 for a similar one of the rack). I've had one suit (Ermenegildo Zegna) done like this (for my wedding, but I chose a design I'd get a lot of use out of), and it's fantastic. I had mine done at Singer, only because I went to Rosen first and found the salesmen far too snotty for my liking.

I too recommend this but in my experience at the beginning of the range of nicer suits it will be more expensive by a couple hundred (~$200) dollars, not less (which as stated above, can apply at the higher price levels). You can start at a lower price though by going to a store with simliar lines to a Rosen or Singer but without the prime locations and marketing budgets. You can get an excellent suit made to order with EVERY option in the design/construction approved by you for ~$1100-$1500.


Claeren.