The Winter's Coming Winter Tires Thread

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So they are all weather tires. There is no such classification as semi-winter.

What all season tires are to winter driving, these are to summer driving. Primarily designed for winter, but can be used year round if needed. I think they recommend them for people that 70/30 winter summer on the site.

It's hard to explain, but the tire is a 100% certified winter tire, with the compound tweaked that they can be used year round if needed without exceptional wear. A lot of people are starting to run them on trucks year round. It was explained to me by the tire rep the recommended them that they are pretty much a hybrid tire.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Really? I find your stance equally, if not more selfish. Driving is a privilege, not a right. You're endangering other people on the road needlessly by being a tight wad about your own safety, and the safety of other people. I just can't fathom how a family can drive their kids around in an unsafe vehicle just for the sake of saving $1,000 over 5 years. Maybe don't buy that iPad or change that iPhone every year?

Holy smokes people. How old are you? Do you have any idea what people drove through winters in the 60's, 70's, and 80's with? Cars with lap belts, no traction control, terrible rubber/tread compounds (the best tire in the 80's wouldn't even compare to today's worst all season tire) and while new technologies are saving lives people are getting into just as many accidents and that's because drivers today are worse. You can have the best setup available and if you are going to drive like an idiot either too fast for the conditions or obsessed with your text messages you are still going to get into an accident. I believe since going mandatory in Quebec collisions have dropped but by less than 10% which means tires don't overcome poor drivers.

The bottom line is that people are worse at driving than they ever have due to all the distractions brought along with technology and the people endangering others on the roads are the ones that are terrible drivers not the ones with all season tires.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I have a question that has probably asked here before - Does AWD help compensate the lack of winter tires?

Short answer. No.

IMO, I feel like AWD keeps the car a little more stable and accelerates faster from a stop (especially in stop areas with polished ice from idiots in crap tires gunning the accelerator). AWD will be superior for handling, evasive maneuvers and acceleration, but as many have noted, it doesn't help with stopping.

Based on purely made up numbers, if driving sensibly is 50% of the battle and tires are 45%, I would say AWD is 2% and luck is 3%.
That 2% will keep you from getting stuck in most situations, but stopping (tires @45%) and the way you drive skills and decision making (sensibility @50%) are more likely to keep you safe than a vehicle performance feature.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Holy smokes people. How old are you? Do you have any idea what people drove through winters in the 60's, 70's, and 80's with? Cars with lap belts, no traction control, terrible rubber/tread compounds (the best tire in the 80's wouldn't even compare to today's worst all season tire) and while new technologies are saving lives people are getting into just as many accidents and that's because drivers today are worse. You can have the best setup available and if you are going to drive like an idiot either too fast for the conditions or obsessed with your text messages you are still going to get into an accident. I believe since going mandatory in Quebec collisions have dropped but by less than 10% which means tires don't overcome poor drivers.

The bottom line is that people are worse at driving than they ever have due to all the distractions brought along with technology and the people endangering others on the roads are the ones that are terrible drivers not the ones with all season tires.

Look, at the end of the day, you and I both know the majority of people who don't get winter tires are because they are cheap asses, simple as that. They can afford it if they choose to, but they choose not to because they think their driving skills can compensate for tires that aren't proper for winter. They rather spend their money on other things they find more important. My argument is that winter tires should be high up there on your list of what's important to spend money on.

It just grinds my gears that these are the people who unnecessarily snarl up traffic in the winter, and are the ones who have to brake needlessly far away because their all season tires can't stop like winter tires do. It just adds to traffic jams. Plus, it makes me paranoid at intersections, thinking some doofus is going slide through an icy intersection becuase their all seasons suck.

[DoubleF]

One of the biggest issues I have noticed isn't the distraction part (though it's a part) but the fact more and more people are driving like they're invincible in poor conditions. Some people grab the "safer car" and just stop caring. They think the car can handle all situations tossed in front of it, so they don't need to do anything or adjust. I freaking get people tailgating me on Deerfoot when it's -20. I see idiots cutting off big rigs because there's 2 car lengths of room in front of them to sneak in (and they can stop their own car, but they never consider the extra room the other vehicle may have been trying to give themselves). Snow tires that perhaps may stop 20 earlier than all weather are useless if your dumb decisions require 25 additional feet of stopping distance.

Snow tires help immensely if you're being sensible. Unfortunately, I see more and more people seemingly drive aggressively and stupidly because they believe these tires will make up for their own deficiencies in driving.

Haven't you ever met someone who stated he/she being safe by grabbing snow tires, but one ride in their car and you realize they aren't a safe driver even with the snow tires?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes. Yes it is which is my point in that lower income families struggle as is.

I don't give a fata. I still expect a lower income family to have a vehicle maintained properly. I expect to see all brake lights, headlights, etc. working. I expect their brakes to be working. I expect their car to be maintained well enough that they're not going to stall on the side of Deerfoot making my commute 30 minutes longer on the way home from work. And I wish winter tires were mandatory. If you can't afford to own a safely maintained car, then take the bus.

I don't like blowing my money any more than anybody else, and yeah, tires are not a 'fun' purchase. I just bought a set on Kijiji last week for half the price of new with 95% tread left. There are ways to minimize the cost.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes. Yes it is which is my point in that lower income families struggle as is.

If only there was a place that targeted the low income with prices....

http://tires.canadiantire.ca/en/tires/winter-tires/

[pylon]

The income thing to me isn't even a valid excuse anyway. You are splitting the time between the two sets of tires pretty much doubling your tire life at twice the cost. It basically a complete wash. If you buy them on a set of steelies, and spend 30 bucks on a floor jack and 50 bucks on a torque wrench.... You can swap them for nothing.

I would actually argue, that in the end, it probably saves you money, because they SIGNIFIGANTLY reduce your chance of collision in the winter, and if you averaged out what the deductible cost and insurance premium increases would be as a result of a collision, in the end you are likely going to come out ahead.

A huge portion of the "I don't need winter tires" crowd, has simply never driven on them. Working at a car dealer, it is amazing to see the reaction they have after they have tried them. It is almost an instant change in philosophy, they are that good.

[Johnny199r]

I got winter tires last year and noticed how much better my vehicle was during winter. I have an AWD Suv, and my all seasons seemed good enough, but for a sudden stop in icy conditions and big snow storms, I was just kidding myself thinking I didn't need winter tires.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Holy smokes people. How old are you? Do you have any idea what people drove through winters in the 60's, 70's, and 80's with? Cars with lap belts, no traction control, terrible rubber/tread compounds (the best tire in the 80's wouldn't even compare to today's worst all season tire) and while new technologies are saving lives people are getting into just as many accidents and that's because drivers today are worse. You can have the best setup available and if you are going to drive like an idiot either too fast for the conditions or obsessed with your text messages you are still going to get into an accident. I believe since going mandatory in Quebec collisions have dropped but by less than 10% which means tires don't overcome poor drivers.

The bottom line is that people are worse at driving than they ever have due to all the distractions brought along with technology and the people endangering others on the roads are the ones that are terrible drivers not the ones with all season tires.

Back in the day it was also acceptable to smoke at your desk, slap the receptionist on the ass, and sterilize people with mental disabilities.

Winter tire technology in any snow belt region is as big, if not a bigger safety advancement than ABS, traction control and airbags the effect is so dramatic.

My Jeep Liberty is a real oddball. For some bizarre reason it has no ABS which was believe it or not, optional up until 2004. Last winter was a huge eye opener on how effective snow tires are. I would roll into slick intersections, and stop perfectly fine with zero drama. Meanwhile people in brand new modern day stuff were sliding and doing the ABS panic dance in their super awesome AWD 60k lux mobiles with their low profile 19's.

[The Yen Man]

I just think AWD is pointless if you don't have winter tires. What's the point of AWD unless you go offroading (which I know the majority of people don't). It's pointless to have during non winter months unless you're a race car driver and need to cut corners at high speeds. Most people in Calgary want AWD for better handling in the winter months when there is snow and ice on the roads. Well, newsflash to everyone. Having winter tires beats having AWD in the winter, hands down. Of course, having both is ideal, but if you can only settle for one, don't spend the money to upgrade to AWD and get a set of winter tires instead.

[ken0042]

While I am a huge fan of winter tires, I do understand EE's point if the person cannot afford them. I have been in that situation, counting your empty cans to see if you have enough to buy food for the next few days until payday.

So I will cut some slack to the guy driving the '97 Grand Am that maybe he doesn't have his life together enough to be able to triple the value of his car with a tire purchase. However anybody driving a vehicle made this decade doesn't have that excuse.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I just think AWD is pointless if you don't have winter tires. What's the point of AWD unless you go offroading (which I know the majority of people don't). It's pointless to have during non winter months unless you're a race car driver and need to cut corners at high speeds. Most people in Calgary want AWD for better handling in the winter months when there is snow and ice on the roads. Well, newsflash to everyone. Having winter tires beats having AWD in the winter, hands down. Of course, having both is ideal, but if you can only settle for one, don't spend the money to upgrade to AWD and get a set of winter tires instead.

Exactly.

I remember 4 or five winters ago, driving up the hill into Lake Louise in a massive blizzard, and in the ditch there was a bunch of pickups and SUV's that couldn't get up the hill. I just blasted up the hill in my FWD GTI with Hakkapalitta's on it like it was dry pavement.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by ken0042

While I am a huge fan of winter tires, I do understand EE's point if the person cannot afford them. I have been in that situation, counting your empty cans to see if you have enough to buy food for the next few days until payday.

So I will cut some slack to the guy driving the '97 Grand Am that maybe he doesn't have his life together enough to be able to triple the value of his car with a tire purchase. However anybody driving a vehicle made this decade doesn't have that excuse.

That's fair, but what excuse will that guy have when they mandate them here? It isn't a matter of if, it's when. I have heard the AIC is already pushing for it.

[ken0042]

I don't have the answer to that Pylon- it is a good question.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by pylon

Working at a car dealer, it is amazing to see the reaction they have after they have tried them. It is almost an instant change in philosophy, they are that good.

Since you work in a dealership, I will tell you friend of my bought a car from a dealership (not VW). He usually buys winter tires. But that time, he didn't because the salesman told him the AWD in that car was so great that he wouldn't need winter tires.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I just think AWD is pointless if you don't have winter tires. What's the point of AWD unless you go offroading (which I know the majority of people don't). It's pointless to have during non winter months unless you're a race car driver and need to cut corners at high speeds. Most people in Calgary want AWD for better handling in the winter months when there is snow and ice on the roads. Well, newsflash to everyone. Having winter tires beats having AWD in the winter, hands down. Of course, having both is ideal, but if you can only settle for one, don't spend the money to upgrade to AWD and get a set of winter tires instead.

Man, you're so on point with this. It's hilarious how many people need AWD. Worse fuel economy, more moving parts, more expensive repairs, etc. There are even cars where AWD detracts from the driving experience. My Sienna, as an example. The FWD variants are faster and have better fuel economy and are thousands cheaper. WTF does a guy need AWD in a minivan for?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ken0042

While I am a huge fan of winter tires, I do understand EE's point if the person cannot afford them. I have been in that situation, counting your empty cans to see if you have enough to buy food for the next few days until payday.

So I will cut some slack to the guy driving the '97 Grand Am that maybe he doesn't have his life together enough to be able to triple the value of his car with a tire purchase. However anybody driving a vehicle made this decade doesn't have that excuse.

Ken, there are options that are cheaper and better than all seasons

http://tires.canadiantire.ca/en/tire...-tire/0041910/


$61 per tire.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Sliver

WTF does a guy need AWD in a minivan for?

AWD is a buzzword in this stat crazy culture. 4 wheel turning is better than 2 so AWD is better. What people don't realize is 95% of the time for 95% of the AWD cars, they behave just like a front wheel driven ones.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by pylon

That's fair, but what excuse will that guy have when they mandate them here? It isn't a matter of if, it's when. I have heard the AIC is already pushing for it.

Originally Posted by ken0042

I don't have the answer to that Pylon- it is a good question.

To be honest, I think that we'll see a lot of people running winters (or all weathers) as the default tire year-round. If you can only afford one set, you'll be picking the one that won't get you a ticket.

Despite the obvious downsides, this is probably as close to a win-win as we can all get. They (and all of us) will be safer in the winter when it matters most, and they don't have to invest in two sets. That being said, I agree with the argument that two sets running half of the time is nearly a wash, but the backlash against mandated winter tires won't feature that detail, I'm sure.

Edit: Does anyone know what the practice is in Quebec, for example? Do the people "forced" to get winter tires get two sets, or roll with winters year-round?