Is Tyler Wotherspoon That Bad?

[devo22]

Wotherspoon is looking at the best situation a young defenseman can be in during training camp. One of the top guys is out for a few weeks, another NHL defenseman is still going to be on IR for some time and possibly one of his competitors for a spot was injured yesterday too. If he can't win a spot in this situation, then it's time to worry. He's still young and far from a bust if he fails to make it, but if he can't beat out a couple of guys on PTOs and younger prospects, then I have my doubts that he'll be a regular NHLer any time soon.

[Enoch Root]

Wotherspoon is a very good young defenseman who has NHL skills, though he is not very flashy, and not very offensive-minded.

His biggest problem is that Hartley isn't a fan. In different circumstances, with a different system or a different coach, he could be playing in the NHL (bottom 6) right now.

[Poe969]

I don't think his biggest problem is that Hartley isn't a fan....at all. I think his biggest problem is that there are better options than him. He doesn't do anything great, he doesn't seem to do anything bad but what does that make him? He's fairly average at this point. You don't want an average guy in the top 4 and you'd rather see if someone who's really good in some aspect can shine in the bottom pairing. He needs to find what'll make him better and focus on that aspect. If it's being defensive, then he needs to work on that and up his physical play. If it's being offensive then he has to work on his skating and learn to join the rush.

I don't think Hartley "dislikes" anyone, I just think he likes the best options for the team.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't think his biggest problem is that Hartley isn't a fan....at all. I think his biggest problem is that there are better options than him. He doesn't do anything great, he doesn't seem to do anything bad but what does that make him? He's fairly average at this point. You don't want an average guy in the top 4 and you'd rather see if someone who's really good in some aspect can shine in the bottom pairing. He needs to find what'll make him better and focus on that aspect. If it's being defensive, then he needs to work on that and up his physical play. If it's being offensive then he has to work on his skating and learn to join the rush.

I don't think Hartley "dislikes" anyone, I just think he likes the best options for the team.

Reading this I think I agree and it sort of reminds me of Backlund and Horak's struggles to make Hartley's team 2-3 years ago. Backlund found his niche eventually, Horak didn't.

[Poe969]

Exactly. The pressure was on Backlund and he's developed into a solid 2c and a really good 3c IMO. Hartley doesn't only demand the best from his players, he gets it. I just don't think Wotherspoon has excelled enough to grab a spot. Not to say that he won't but the fact that he's being passed by others just shows that Hartley and co. are practicing what they preach. Hard work and results get rewarded.

I think Wotherspoon will be a solid 4-6 in the future but this year I think he has a lot of work to do.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't think his biggest problem is that Hartley isn't a fan....at all. I think his biggest problem is that there are better options than him. He doesn't do anything great, he doesn't seem to do anything bad but what does that make him? He's fairly average at this point. You don't want an average guy in the top 4 and you'd rather see if someone who's really good in some aspect can shine in the bottom pairing. He needs to find what'll make him better and focus on that aspect. If it's being defensive, then he needs to work on that and up his physical play. If it's being offensive then he has to work on his skating and learn to join the rush.

I don't think Hartley "dislikes" anyone, I just think he likes the best options for the team.

I didn't say Hartley dislikes him. And I agree that I don't think he dislikes anyone.

But every person has their favourite players, and players they aren't as keen on. It is simple human nature.

Take any player on the team or any prospect and ask 100 people what they think of that player and you will get 100 different answers. That's just the way it is.

I wasn't insulting Hartley or blaming him for Wotherspoon's lack of success so far.

I am merely suggesting that Wotherspoon is good enough to be playing in the NHL right now.

I think some people see a stay-at-home, defense-first type of defenseman and automatically think 'not very good'. And that is not always accurate.

[cannon7]

Wotherspoon only had notoriety because our lack of D depth in the system. He was never projected to be a top-pairing guy, his ceiling was always a #4/5. That being said, it's actually a good sign that he's still in the mix. He has good size and reach, better than average skating, his poise and positioning has improved. If he was more physical he'd probably already have a spot. It was that lack of physicality that necessitated the acquisition of Engelland. It's puzzling to me that players gifted with size won't use that to their advantage. I like Wotherspoon's game, but realistically he needs to find that dimension to his game that gets his foot in the door on the bottom pairing. I'm sure the Flames organization are telling him this, but it is easier said than done clearly. Wotherspoon's comfort zone is playing a steady and safe game -- and while you want your d-men to know when to play that way, you also want them to know when to take calculated risks. It's an aspect of a player's hockey sense that Wotherspoon still needs to develop. If he doesn't, e projects to be a utility player. But given where he was drafted, he's already exceeded my expectations.

[Bourque's Twin]

I thought this was Wotherspoon's last attempt to make the Flames and that he was going to fail. There's so much depth in the organization.

However, I watched him pretty closely against EDM in game 1 of the pre season. He was super steady, efficient at getting the puck out of the zone, etc. I have changed my tune about him, and I think he has a shot to stick as a #6 this year and develop into a #4 eventually.

The problem with his game is that he has no unique/stand-out features to add to a diverse core immediately.
Hamilton has size, speed, and a shot.
Gio is amazing at everything.
Engelland is super tough.
Wideman is incredible on the PP.
Russell is fast and a shot blocking machine.
Brodie is an incredible skater and passer.

Wotherspoon is good at everything but not great... yet.

I think he is going to have a very gradual transition to the NHL. Each year he will get better and more NHL games, but he doesn't do anything substantial to make a significant immediate impact.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saillias

Reading this I think I agree and it sort of reminds me of Backlund and Horak's struggles to make Hartley's team 2-3 years ago. Backlund found his niche eventually, Horak didn't.

He didn't with anyone. If you can't make the Oilers...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

It's not that Wotherspoon is bad. It's just that our prospects on D are so good now. Great problem to have. Unfortunately, some players feelings are going to be hurt.

Yeah, its a shame he didnt cement his position when he had the opportunity, last year we were desperate for D but he never really forced the issue, now we've got a logjam lining up for the 6/7 spot and hes going to have to earn it or he gets passed on the depth chart.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Wotherspoon is a very good young defenseman who has NHL skills, though he is not very flashy, and not very offensive-minded.

His biggest problem is that Hartley isn't a fan. In different circumstances, with a different system or a different coach, he could be playing in the NHL (bottom 6) right now.

Yeah, hes just steady, good, but not excellent at anything.

He really needs to 'Kris Russel' up his skillset.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Wotherspoon only had notoriety because our lack of D depth in the system. He was never projected to be a top-pairing guy, his ceiling was always a #4/5. That being said, it's actually a good sign that he's still in the mix. He has good size and reach, better than average skating, his poise and positioning has improved. If he was more physical he'd probably already have a spot. It was that lack of physicality that necessitated the acquisition of Engelland. It's puzzling to me that players gifted with size won't use that to their advantage. I like Wotherspoon's game, but realistically he needs to find that dimension to his game that gets his foot in the door on the bottom pairing. I'm sure the Flames organization are telling him this, but it is easier said than done clearly. Wotherspoon's comfort zone is playing a steady and safe game -- and while you want your d-men to know when to play that way, you also want them to know when to take calculated risks. It's an aspect of a player's hockey sense that Wotherspoon still needs to develop. If he doesn't, e projects to be a utility player. But given where he was drafted, he's already exceeded my expectations.

Reggie should have a talk with him. Regehr wasn't as physical when he came onto the team either - he was strong but not as nasty as he became later (of course, he had the injury to deal with as well). But when he found his physical game (and still was always under 100pms) he became a star.

[Alberta_Beef]

People are seriously ready to write off a defenseman who isn't even done his ELC yet? It's like people forget he's only been a pro for 2 seasons. Why aren't people writing of Granlund? Forwards develop sooner and he's had just as much pro experience. Suggesting this is his last chance reeks of stupidity.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

People are seriously ready to write off a defenseman who isn't even done his ELC yet? It's like people forget he's only been a pro for 2 seasons. Why aren't people writing of Granlund? Forwards develop sooner and he's had just as much pro experience. Suggesting this is his last chance reeks of stupidity.

I don't see too many people writing him off. What I do see if people commenting on the indisputable fact that there's a lot of guys suddenly competing for the bottom pairing, and more prospects in the pipeline as well, so his window isn't what it used to be.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't see too many people writing him off. What I do see if people commenting on the indisputable fact that there's a lot of guys suddenly competing for the bottom pairing, and more prospects in the pipeline as well, so his window isn't what it used to be.

People just like what's shiny and new. Yes we are deeper than we were 2 years ago but this is still a guy that played top minutes in the AHL last year. He doesn't get credit anymore because he hasn't surprised anyone or he isn't a new draft pick. He's not flashy, he's just a steady boring defenseman that has been in the organization a little while now so he doesn't get the attention. Wotherspoon is still one of the front runners for an NHL job this year and IMO is close to a sure thing with 2 injuries on the blueline.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

People are seriously ready to write off a defenseman who isn't even done his ELC yet? It's like people forget he's only been a pro for 2 seasons. Why aren't people writing of Granlund? Forwards develop sooner and he's had just as much pro experience. Suggesting this is his last chance reeks of stupidity.

I dont think anyone is writing him off, its just the nature of the beast, last year his primary competition was Corey Potter, this year the level of competition is significantly tougher.

No one is writing him off, but if he gets passed on the depth chart then so be it.

[Poe969]

I think that's a load of BS. "People like what's shiny and new" so people like Dougie Hamilton over Engelland just because he's new? No, they like him because he's better. People like guys like Nakladal, Morrison and a few others over Wotherspoon because they've shown they've improved their game. Last season, Wotherspoon was average at best, you'd think that if he wanted a serious shot at the NHL and to be considered more than just a 6-7 guy that he would have improved noticeably. He didn't. People are picking other guys over Wotherspoon because those other guys are showing more.

I'm sure Wotherspoon will be decent in the future but right now he's incredibly average and that's why people have him so down the depth chart.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

People are seriously ready to write off a defenseman who isn't even done his ELC yet? It's like people forget he's only been a pro for 2 seasons. Why aren't people writing of Granlund? Forwards develop sooner and he's had just as much pro experience. Suggesting this is his last chance reeks of stupidity.

Many are ...

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think that's a load of BS. "People like what's shiny and new" so people like Dougie Hamilton over Engelland just because he's new? No, they like him because he's better. People like guys like Nakladal, Morrison and a few others over Wotherspoon because they've shown they've improved their game. Last season, Wotherspoon was average at best, you'd think that if he wanted a serious shot at the NHL and to be considered more than just a 6-7 guy that he would have improved noticeably. He didn't. People are picking other guys over Wotherspoon because those other guys are showing more.

I'm sure Wotherspoon will be decent in the future but right now he's incredibly average and that's why people have him so down the depth chart.

its a fact people are drawn to what is new. Look at people fawning over the 2015 draft picks. Look at how people fawned over guys like Deblouw and Harrison after their first development camps. As a player has been in an organization long they are less likely to surprise and thus less likely to draw attention to themselves.

As for guys surpassing him on the depth chart, Nakladal is a 27 year old veteran, Morrison was a good acquisition but he's only played a handful of pro games and may need more time. Kulak has had a good camp but he hasn't surpassed Wotherspoon, neither has Culkin. So the only one to pass him was playing professional hockey years before Wotherspoon was even drafted. Wotherspoon was also better than average last year IMO, he was the most reliable defenseman for Adirondack by a decent margin.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

People are seriously ready to write off a defenseman who isn't even done his ELC yet? It's like people forget he's only been a pro for 2 seasons. Why aren't people writing of Granlund? Forwards develop sooner and he's had just as much pro experience. Suggesting this is his last chance reeks of stupidity.

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Many are ...

Yup. I like Granlund, and he's done really well so far this pre-season. But he faces a similar logjam of bottom 6 forwards. Not writing him off, and I think he's made the most of his chance this preseason. But If he wants to be a C, there's Shore, Jooris, Stajan, Colborne all at that natural position, and all those guys plus Bollig, Raymond, Byron, Jones and a few minor leaguers who will play wing as well.