Saudi Arabia stampede

[2Stonedbirds]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34346449

Over 700 people dead.

[Tyler]

Our Stampede sounds way better

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Our Stampede sounds way better

Not really.

[HotHotHeat]

Nothing highlights my lacking understanding of the Middle East more than these disasters.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think that thread title should be changed. It really is a terrible tragedy, and "stampede" in this town has other connotations.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Nothing highlights my lacking understanding of the Middle East more than these disasters.

Do some digging. Stampeding is something that actually happens relatively frequently in that part of the world. There's always some phenomena why people run in mass numbers over there. The Hajj is a popular one to stampede at.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incide..._crowd_control

[CaptainCrunch]

Interesting to say the least that all of those people died on the way to throw stones at a pillar that represents Satan.

[Huntingwhale]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj

Some notable incidents include:

July 2, 1990 : A stampede inside a pedestrian tunnel (Al-Ma'aisim tunnel) leading out from Mecca towards Mina and the Plains of Arafat led to the deaths of 1,426 pilgrims, many of them of Malaysian, Indonesian and Pakistani origin.

May 23, 1994 : A stampede killed at least 270 pilgrims at the stoning of the Devil ritual.

April 9, 1998: at least 118 pilgrims were trampled to death and 180 injured in an incident on Jamarat Bridge.

March 5, 2001: 35 pilgrims were trampled to death in a stampede during the stoning of the Devil ritual.

February 11, 2003: The stoning of the Devil ritual claimed 14 pilgrims' lives.

February 1, 2004: 251 pilgrims were killed and another 244 injured in a stampede during the stoning ritual in Mina.

January 12, 2006: A stampede during the stoning of the Devil on the last day of the Hajj in Mina killed at least 346 pilgrims and injured at least 289 more. The incident occurred shortly after 13:00 local time, when a busload of travellers arrived together at the eastern access ramps to the Jamarat Bridge. This caused pilgrims to trip, rapidly resulting in a lethal stampede. An estimated two million people were performing the ritual at the time.
September 24, 2015: More than 700 pilgrims were killed and another 800 injured during a stampede in the 2015 Hajj

Maybe we shouldn't be throwing rocks at ''the devil'' when clearly he keeps coming out on top...

[nik-]

It's not religion, it's overcrowding. They're there for religious purposes, but this crap can happen at poorly planned concerts and sporting events too.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Nothing highlights my lacking understanding of the Middle East more than these disasters.

The people making the pilgrimage to Mecca are from all over the world. A couple million, all at once, many of whom saved for years for a once-in-a-lifetime show of devotion. The Saudis employ pretty sophisticated measures to control congestion, including remote camera monitoring to manage crowds and ramps and tunnels engineered on a far bigger scale than anything you see on at an NFL stadium. They deploy 100,000 security and emergency personnel on-hand. The problem is it's just a massive sh*t-tonne of people trying to get to a handful of sacred locations at once.

Originally Posted by nik-

It's not religion, it's overcrowding. They're there for religious purposes, but this crap can happen at poorly planned concerts and sporting events too.

Yep. Love Parade anyone?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yep. Love Parade anyone?

Well to be fair, the Love Parade really only had that one major incident in 2010 where 21 people died. The promoters then cancelled future festivals because of this.

During Hajj, there seems to be a large scale massacre of people quite often during this pilgrimage and it's a yearly event that takes place.

Either way it's a tragic event and I just find it unsettling how so many people die going for this pilgrimage, all in the name of showing devotion to God.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Do some digging. Stampeding is something that actually happens relatively frequently in that part of the world. There's always some phenomena why people run in mass numbers over there. The Hajj is a popular one to stampede at.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incide..._crowd_control

I fully understand what causes it. What I will never understand is the lack of regard for human life. How normal it is makes it even more baffling. Just seems to be an accepted part of society.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I fully understand what causes it. What I will never understand is the lack of regard for human life. How normal it is makes it even more baffling. Just seems to be an accepted part of society.

Okay, finish this sentence:

"If the Saudi authorities had a higher regard for the lives of pilgrims to Mecca, they would ________."

[northcrunk]

Saudi Health minister says it was "God's will" ...............

[polak]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Okay, finish this sentence:

"If the Saudi authorities had a higher regard for the lives of pilgrims to Mecca, they would ________."

Limit the number of pilgrims allowed to enter the holy site by implementing some sort of lottery system for access.

Yes, Yes, I get it, "Religion!". Doesn't excuse the lack of respect for life. 700 people just died and they're not going to cancel it. That should tell you something.

700!

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Okay, finish this sentence:

"If the Saudi authorities had a higher regard for the lives of pilgrims to Mecca, they would ________."

The government does take measures....

How do the authorities cope? Authorities deployed 100,000 security personnel and 25,000 extra health workers this year, as well as 100,000 air-conditioned tents for temporary accommodation.

The Saudi authorities have spent billions of dollars on improving transport and other infrastructure to try to prevent such incidents.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34346449

That tells me that it's a societal problem much more than a government one.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

The government does take measures....



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34346449

That tells me that it's a societal problem much more than a government one.

Which society? The pilgrims come from all over the world. The Middle East, North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, Europe, Central Asia, Pakistan, India, the Philippines, China, Russia, Indonesia...

[Looch City]

It's not a societal or religious problem.

The problem is you have a giant mass of up to 2 million people in one place that's obviously not meant to hold that many. And on top of that, that giant mass of people is in motion.

Try holding an event like that in North America and you'd get the same result.

[polak]

Except you wouldn't allow that sort of event in North America.

Occupancy limits are a crazy thing.

[Ducay]

Suddenly 2 horses is sounding like a pretty reasonable loss of life for a Stampede