VW Emissions Rigging

[KTrain]

It'll be interesting to see how the company bounces back from this. It's a huge breach of trust from a very respected brand.

If Pylon is around, how are things at work? Is everyone in damage control mode?

On Friday, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) revealed that half a million diesel-powered VWs had been programmed to bypass emission controls except during emissions tests. The cars include the Audi A3, VW Jetta, Beetle, Golf and Passat models made in the last seven years.

Volkswagen shares plunge on emissions rigging scandal
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volk...ging-1.3236548

[I-Hate-Hulse]

".....were actually emitting up to 40 times the national standard for nitrogen oxide..."

Wow that's not "a little over the line" that's all out pretending it doesn't exist.

Suspension of all TDI sales and refunds for purchasers where "AirCare" programs are in place and cars are now illegal?

[burn_this_city]

What I don't get is why? If they'd pass with the software active why not run it all the time? I think its probably because the mileage penalty would negate the reasons to go diesel in the first place.

[pylon]

It's too soon to tell at this point, but to be honest, diesel sales have been steadily on the decline recently, as the the pricing gap on diesel/gas, and the pricing gap on the cars, means you have to drive 30-40k/yr to really have it make sense. Overall, I don't think this will have a big impact on sales.

To be perfectly honest, the number of people buying TDI's with altruistic motives in mind are slim to none. 99% of them just want the 1100 km's per tank. I can see this hurting the dealers in the granola belt (BC/Washington/Oregon/California) but in the prairies and out East, I don't want to sound flippant, but I actually think this will end up helping with some brand awareness, as a lot of people don't realize we even sell a car that gets such ridiculous mileage.

Either way, we are equally in the dark as to what actually happened. But we aren't worried about our doors being shuttered or anything. This is the bottom line IMO. Manufacturers have rebounded from known defects that were killing people, this is not that type of defect. VW will recall the applicable cars, do whatever they have to do with them, and move on. There really isn't much else they can do.

[cam_wmh]

Toyota was fined $1.2BN for their sticky pedals
Fiat/Chrysler was just fined over $100m for their perpetual recalls/defects

What's VW's potential penalty? Perhaps penalize the pollution with a metric similar to a carbon credit?

My entirely arbitrary number is $300m.

[burn_this_city]

The potential fine is upwards of $35k a car from what I read.

[pylon]

And for the record, I don't think this is a nothing issue. If VW purposely rigged their cars, I don't think it's cool. I don't think anyone in a dealership could justify it. As a dealer employee though, I am in no way affiliated with the mother corp's decisions or conduct. I am just another cog in a very small wheel. VW will do the right thing here, but I am as curious as anyone, what the timeline and anatomy of this whole debacle is.

[FLAMESRULE]

This is from my morning market email from my broker (RGMP):

"Volkswagen is down over 20% in premarket trading after admitting to cheating an emissions test for with their diesel vehicles. The company faces possibly billions in fines, not to mention the public backlash. Estimates are that the fines could be as much as $18bb."

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Toyota was fined $1.2BN for their sticky pedals
Fiat/Chrysler was just fined over $100m for their perpetual recalls/defects

What's VW's potential penalty? Perhaps penalize the pollution with a metric similar to a carbon credit?

My entirely arbitrary number is $300m.

burn_this_city is correct. ~35K for each car and with half a million cars that's a potential penalty of 17.5 billion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09...n_8163512.html

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

burn_this_city is correct. ~35K for each car and with half a million cars that's a potential penalty of 17.5 billion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09...n_8163512.html

Yeah I read that too, but $18bn is a crippling number. That's the same as the BP fine, yet 18x Toyota's fine that killed almost a hundred people.

[Regular_John]

Dang how do they even go about rigging that up? How do these emission test work anyways? A computer hookup that tells the car it's running in test mode? Or did VW provide specific vehicles to the test?

Either way I know the emission test in North America do keep a lot of Diesel vehicles from reaching our shores, which is a bummer because I'd love nothing more then an affordable compact diesel. Fuel economy (emissions not withstanding) is fantastic.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by pylon

Overall, I don't think this will have a big impact on sales.

20% is a major hit in sales.

The sales halt could put a significant dent in the company's September sales performance. About 20% of Volkswagen's vehicle sales are diesel engines, said AutoPacific analyst Dave Sullivan

Originally Posted by pylon

And for the record, I don't think this is a nothing issue. If VW purposely rigged their cars, I don't think it's cool.

I don't think there is any doubt that VW did rig the software to cheat on the drive cycle test. You don't suspend sales of all your diesel engine cars and apologize otherwise.

[PeteMoss]

Is that 20% number North America? Seems like a US (and probably Canada) issue rather than a worldwide thing.

[nfotiu]

I guess I'm glad I sold my tdi last year. Buying what I thought was an environmentally responsible car was a big part of the reason I had bought it though. I don't think that is as rare as Pylon is stating.

Can they fix this without reducing the power and/or mileage of these cars? If the fix does hurt the performance, that's not cool, and not very good for current owners of TDIs.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by zamler

20% is a major hit in sales.

That is the stock price, the stock price doesn't dictate how many cars VWAG sells.

It very well could impact delivered units 20%. It could impact it 50%, it could also impact it nothing depending on what sort of incentives VW comes up with to compensate. The share price doesn't immediately affect the dealers bottom line, we are a franchised operation. A dealer could just ramp up their used car dept with off-make sales if there is a new car sales dip to compensate.

As a dealer employee, the stock price has little to no impact on me personally. All that matters to us, is how many cars, our dealership sells. VW isn't going to go under because of this, I am not worried about that. As a dealer you just have to figure out how to get around news like this. There's nothing we can do to change what happened.

Either way, I don't speak directly for VW or our dealership, I am just shooting the poop on this thing like everyone else. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Can they fix this without reducing the power and/or mileage of these cars?

I don't see how. If the engines could make the stated power and adhere to emissions standards there would have been no software cheating put in place. I feel bad for people that own a VW or Audi diesel the resale value of their cars has just plummeted.

Originally Posted by pylon

That is the stock price, the stock price doesn't dictate how many cars VWAG sells.

About 20% of Volkswagen's vehicle sales are diesel engines

I don't see anything about stock price in the above link.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by zamler

I don't see how. If the engines could make the stated power and adhere to emissions standards there would have been no software cheating put in place. I feel bad for people that own a VW or Audi diesel the resale value of their cars has just plummeted.

About 20% of Volkswagen's vehicle sales are diesel engines

I don't see anything about stock price in the above link.

They aren't just going to throw all the cars away.... there will be some sort of fix. I think I have an idea of what will happen. My guess is they will retrofit ad blue urea technology to the cars to make them comply.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by pylon

They aren't just going to throw all the cars away....

Is anyone suggesting this, or saying VW is going out of business? I don't get why you're talking about these extremes.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by pylon

To be perfectly honest, the number of people buying TDI's with altruistic motives in mind are slim to none. 99% of them just want the 1100 km's per tank. I can see this hurting the dealers in the granola belt (BC/Washington/Oregon/California) but in the prairies and out East, I don't want to sound flippant, but I actually think this will end up helping with some brand awareness, as a lot of people don't realize we even sell a car that gets such ridiculous mileage.
o.

I think the issue is that cheating the emissions standards enabled the vehicles to acheive that ridiculous milage. And maintain "performance" that people enjoy.

[burn_this_city]

Urea injection shouldn't affect performance that much, I'm surprised they don't have that already.