Is Brodie now a 3rd pairing DMan?

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Serapth

Well, this is exactly the problem.

Gio/Hamilton/Brodie

Who are the best two?


It's not an easy question to answer, and the reason why this is even a question. You clearly rank Hamilton as the 3rd in that list. I don't know yet.

OK - lets say we can't pick the top two out of Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton. But I think we can generally agree that all three of them are better than Russell and Wideman. So then, wouldn't it make sense to keep one of the best defence pairings in the NHL last season together and breakup the pair below to accommodate Hamilton?

And to Yamer's credit (who posted above). Just because a player is listed lower on the pairing list doesn't necessarily mean they are a lesser player. All players have their strengths and weaknesses and when used correctly in appropriate situations, all players can be effective. See Engellend with Brodie last year. That being said, there's no way you put Brodie with Engellend and have him only play 8-12 minutes a night.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Serapth

Well, this is exactly the problem.

Gio/Hamilton/Brodie

Who are the best two?


It's not an easy question to answer, and the reason why this is even a question. You clearly rank Hamilton as the 3rd in that list. I don't know yet.

Even if Gio and Hamilton are deemed to be the two best and work so well together that you have to break up Gio and Brodie, that doesn't mean you move Brodie al the way down to 3rd pairing. Brodie becomes the anchor of the second pairing, and you find who works best with him. Yes, that will likely mean breaking up Russell and Wideman, but that is an acceptable necessity.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Serapth

So is Gio, so is Hamilton.

Yes. You are right. So why put Brodie as the "third pairing" and keep Russell and Wideman together? That's where I'm confused with your logic. You are talking big on the top 3 defencemen, but somehow, the Russell/Wideman pairing is spectacular enough that you would place one of the top three defencemen on the so-called bottom pairing. I think you can tell by nearly everyone's posts that the simple answer to your question is that Russell or Wideman gets moved down.

[getbak]

I expect Hartley to be experimenting a lot with different combinations in the preseason. I don't think he'll hesitate to split up Russell and Wideman if it comes to that, and it most likely will.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by FFR

Yes. You are right. So why put Brodie as the "third pairing" and keep Russell and Wideman together? That's where I'm confused with your logic. You are talking big on the top 3 defencemen, but somehow, the Russell/Wideman pairing is spectacular enough that you would place one of the top three defencemen on the so-called bottom pairing. I think you can tell by nearly everyone's posts that the simple answer to your question is that Russell or Wideman gets moved down.

If it's ordering, sure.. I don't really care. Should Brodie get more icetime than Wideman/Russel? Of course.


The reason I wouldn't break Wideman/Russel up is because I do think together they are better than the sum of their parts. While I think Gio + Brodie are great because they are two great players. I hope that Gio + Ham or Ham + Bro are the same, great because the individual components are great.

Now with Engellend + Brodie, Engellend improved MASSIVELY being paired with Brodie. I wanted this bum off the team until Gio went down, then he continued to amaze me.

Would it make you feel better if it was listed:
Gio/Ham
Bro/Eng
Wid/Rus
Et/al
?



As another poster said, I think we will see much more even distribution of minutes across the defence.

[Matata]

Brodie on the third pairing is still getting 20 mins/night, I think it would push his role to being a defensive specialist and would see him moving up and down the line up throughout the game. I imagine our #6 D for the upcoming season is going to be a revolving door, brodie would be able to protect whoever is filling that role.

These pairs let the D play in their natural positions and I have more faith in Brodie's ability to carry a pair than in Hamilton. D pairing's like Russel - Engelland make me cringe a bit, and Brodie on the third pairing prevents the flames from ever having to play a 'weak-link' pairing. Your not getting Brodie back on the first line without splitting up Russel - Wideman, keeping that pair together should also be priority.

[ricardodw]

The real question is how good Russell -Wideman really ius.


When Gio was hurt they were not only the #1 pairing on the Flames they were the best #1 pairing in the league.

Against the other teams best lines in a tight playoff race:

Wideman 19 games 19 pts +6 27+ minutes a game
Russell 19 games 14 pots +8 26+ minutes/game


Both Russell (8 years) and Wideman (10 years) are veteran NHL players that have not played at this level with any other of dozens of other partners.

Hamilton, while brimming with potential, has had 1 season as a top -4 D-man on a non-playoff team and one year as 4/5. He has never been on a top pairing like Gio-Brodie or Russell-Wideman. Not saying he won't or can't be, but so far he hasn't been.

I think that in the reality of line mixing/matching that Hartley will go with the best 4 guys in the 3rd periods based on how they are playing the first 2 periods.

Wideman will likely get a lot of minutes as he manages his effort so well and plays better when he gets every 2nd shift.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by Matata

D pairing's like Russel - Engelland make me cringe a bit, and Brodie on the third pairing prevents the flames from ever having to play a 'weak-link' pairing. Your not getting Brodie back on the first line without splitting up Russel - Wideman, keeping that pair together should also be priority.

I still remember the beginning of last season where it felt like every single time it was Englland/Smid on the ice, the puck was in our net. Spreading the talent around should prevent this.

[Mattman]

Although I love the Russel and Wideman pairing I would rather split them up to keep from giving Brodie 3rd pairing minutes.

Also was a Brodie-Wideman pairing ever explored during this past season?

If so then my Oct 7th Line-up for D goes like this:

Gio-Hamiliton
Brodie-Wideman
Russel-Nakladel
Engelland

[indes]

I bet we see some double shifting between Brodie and Giordano to have them
hover around 24 minutes a night.

[Matata]

always having a fresh Geo or Brodie for the penalty kill would be awesome.

[schteve_d]

Our defense is un-real. It's fun to even contemplate that Brodie could be a third pairing!

[Finger Cookin]

Is Sam Bennett a fourth line centre? Is Drew Shore a lock to make the team? Is Ortio not a part of the goaltending picture?

Take this for what it is - a quick preview on a website focused on cranking out previews for 8 Canadian teams before camp starts next week. These questions will be answered over the course of camp, and throughout the season.

[BruceCody]

tsn use random machine

[GranteedEV]

Engelland is not a top 4 defenseman and Brodie is not a bottom pair defenseman. Neither of those are options going into next season. At All.

If healthy, there are a grand total of four line permutations people can expect next season

1)

Giordano-Brodie (Elite Shutdown Pair)
Russell-Hamilton (Classic Middle Pair)
Smid-Wideman (Classic bottom pair)

2)

Giordano-Hamilton (Elite shutdown pair)
Brodie-Wideman (Offensive Middle pair)
Russell-Engelland (Classic Bottom Pair)

3)
Giordano-Brodie (Elite Shutdown Pair)
Russell-Hamilton (Classic Middle Pair)
Wideman-Engelland (Two-righties bottom pair, just like Diaz/Engelland last year)

4)
Giordano-Brodie (Elite Shutdown Pair)
Wilson-Hamilton (Classic Middle Pair)
Russell-Wideman (for those who actually think this pairing needs to be preserved when it really doesn't)


Any permutation that involves downgrading the quality of the middle pairing to make Deryk Engelland a salvageably roster player will not happen in anything other than spurts.

Having three top pairing defenseman is great. Keep them on your top 3 like any sensible team and have a competent #4 like any sensible team. It ain't rocket science.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by Serapth

Then how do you break down the lines? It's either Brodie/Gio or Hamilton/Gio and the other gets pushed down the depth chart. The Russel/Wideman tandem is very good and it's dangerous to mess with that, so where does that leave you?

I'll let Hartley run his team, but how can you say that Russell/Wideman is very good and don't want to break it, but then you're willing to break up Gio/Brodie? I understand bringing in Hamilton changes things, but to answer your original question, no, Brodie is not a 3rd pairing guy IMO. Valid question, but I don't expect the proposed TSN lines will be the ones Hartley puts out.

[Bunk]

Russell

Good God, people.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

I'll let Hartley run his team, but how can you say that Russell/Wideman is very good and don't want to break it, but then you're willing to break up Gio/Brodie? I understand bringing in Hamilton changes things, but to answer your original question, no, Brodie is not a 3rd pairing guy IMO. Valid question, but I don't expect the proposed TSN lines will be the ones Hartley puts out.

Because Gio/Brodie were already broken and Brodie continued to thrive on his own.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Jesus... the Chart was very obviously organized by left shot and right shot, not by pairing.

It's also inferring that Brodie is lower on the depth chart than Russell.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Not wanting to split up the Wideman/Russell pairing is a silly argument.

Gio/Brodie were the undisputed best pairing in the league last year so why would you split them up and not our 2nd pairing?

Not to mention Brodie is our most well conditioned player who skates more miles than anyone else on the team. You don't cut ice time from players like that.