Ashley Madison (cheating / affair website) hacked

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm not making moral judgements on anyone. Everyone should have a right to privacy and hacking and releasing this info is a ####ty thing to do.

What I'm saying is that it's not the hacker's fault that he killed himself. It was his choice to cheat (or try and cheat) and it was his choice to resolve this issue by killing himself.

OK so you are not making a moral judgment. Fair enough. What if I post a picture of you doing something very embarrassing. And the humiliation leads you to depression and suicide. Don't I have a large degree of culpability in that case?

I would feel that I do.

[Wormius]

^ what if it was personal medical information that was embarrassing? Still his own fault?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

OK so you are not making a moral judgment. Fair enough. What if I post a picture of you doing something very embarrassing. And the humiliation leads you to depression and suicide. Don't I have a large degree of culpability in that case?

I would feel that I do.

Perhaps. Either way, I don't blame the hackers for him killing himself. He made the choices that led to both outcomes.

If you guys want to, that's your prerogative.

[ResAlien]

What if it was a webm of you just powerhousing a fleshlight with a close up photo of Delta Burke's triceps taped to it whilst singing along to Fifth Harmony's "Top Down", wearing a turquoise snakeskin onesie and a bolo tie?

Not that I'd be worried about that but hypothetically speaking would that be embarrassing enough? Asking for a friend.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I agree with you but added some maybes. We have no idea what the actual trigger for the person's suicide was. Likely it goes deeper than either the issue of cheating or his public information being released.

Well depending on how long the affair was going on and when he killed himself in relation to when his info was made public. If he killed himself shortly after his info was made public then you'd have to agree he did it because of his information being made public. Sure, it may have been the straw that broke the camel's back but if that straw doesn't get added then the back doesn't get broken.

It's like me driving into a guy who's jaywalking and then the guy dies in the hospital hours later but he's a smoker. I mean it wouldn't be my fault because the guy was going to eventually die from smoking right?

PS where the heck is Boris!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Well depending on how long the affair was going on and when he killed himself in relation to when his info was made public. If he killed himself shortly after his info was made public then you'd have to agree he did it because of his information being made public. Sure, it may have been the straw that broke the camel's back but if that straw doesn't get added then the back doesn't get broken.

It's like me driving into a guy who's jaywalking and then the guy dies in the hospital hours later but he's a smoker. I mean it wouldn't be my fault because the guy was going to eventually die from smoking right?

PS where the heck is Boris!

oh ffs. Yeah, that's totally what it's like

You're just trying to be ridiculous at this point.

[Poe969]

Honest question then, do you think the guy would have killed himself had his information been made public?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Honest question then, do you think the guy would have killed himself had his information been made public?

Nope.

That still doesn't mean they're responsible for his death. Getting caught and people finding out is a legitimate risk in cheating. His solution was extreme idiocy, so that's on him.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Well depending on how long the affair was going on and when he killed himself in relation to when his info was made public. If he killed himself shortly after his info was made public then you'd have to agree he did it because of his information being made public. Sure, it may have been the straw that broke the camel's back but if that straw doesn't get added then the back doesn't get broken.

PS where the heck is Boris!

Yeah, it looks that way for sure. But, just like we can't presume to know the reasons behind anyone belonging to this site, we can't presume the reasons people end up offing themselves after the information is released. It obviously is the straw that broke the back, but whatever made them take it that far is something that is much deeper seeded.

I agree that the hackers are in the wrong (it doesn't absolve people of their personal transgressions, but they are personal), but we it's impossible to know the reason unless they left a note. It could have nothing to do with the Madison release, although it very likely does.

If a kid lifts another kids shirt in front of a whole class, and now the class makes fun of him for being fat constantly. If that kid eventually kills himself, is the original kid (hackers) the only one to blame? What about everyone else pointing fingers(nik and others)? What about the parents who didn't help him eat better (friends/family that may have known already)? There's so many factors, you can't put all the blame in one party's hands. The information should have never been released, and this is a tragic incident connected to it, but we can't infer much beyond that.

Too the original thought that the hackers may have trouble sleeping, it depends on what type of people they are. Some of them might, but these are the same types of people that release andom computer viruses for everyone to enjoy, so I doubt their social consciousness is that fine-tuned. Taking the simplistic view that releasing this information will somehow stop the morally ambiguous issue of infidelity shows that.

And more Boris will be coming soon! I'm glad you enjoy it!

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Nope.

That still doesn't mean they're responsible for his death. Getting caught and people finding out is a legitimate risk in cheating. His solution was extreme idiocy, so that's on him.

How's the view from way up there?

Bottom line is that if they hadn't leaked the info - they guy is probably still alive.

You can't simply dismiss that.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by nik-

Nope.

That still doesn't mean they're responsible for his death. Getting caught and people finding out is a legitimate risk in cheating. His solution was extreme idiocy, so that's on him.

If some guy was standing on a ledge, and instead of trying to persuade him to step away, you instead encourage him to jump. Would you feel responsible for him jumping?

That's how I view the hackers responsibility in the guy's death. Would he have eventually killed himself if he wasn't outed illegally by the hackers? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. But for sure him being outed encouraged him to commit suicide.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

How's the view from way up there?

Bottom line is that if they hadn't leaked the info - they guy is probably still alive.

You can't simply dismiss that.

I'm not simply dismissing it, I'm just saying his death isn't on them. And the view is fine. I don't see how me thinking this guy made his own bed is acting high and mighty. It sucks that the guy killed himself, and hacking and releasing info is an ####### thing to do. One can hold these views while also feeling that the responsibility for the death as a result of doing something he obviously felt was shameful is on the person who did that act in the first place.

If someone wants to cheat, that's their choice, I really don't care. However if you get caught or exposed, possibly publicly, remember that cheating was your decision and if you didn't know that there was a risk you'd get caught or exposed, then you're an idiot.

[Poe969]

But he wasn't really caught. Someone didn't do this just to catch him, they did it to make money off of people who use the site in general. If it was the guys wife or family member or something trying to catch him, I'm sure he would have acted differently. Instead it was someone trying to blackmail people who use the site in general and this guy was caught in the crossfire.

Affairs happen all the time in society, it sucks and it's horrible. There are only 3 real ways you find out about an affair, catching the person red handed, the person admitting to it or someone else finding out and telling you about it. The last has to be the worst way to find out devastating news, it's never good to hear about your own situation from others. In most cases when an affair happens and the other partner find out, it's between them and they have time to deal with it in their own way. This takes that right away from them.

Again, I don't condone cheating and I've been cheated on (by a girlfriend years ago) but there is nothing illegal about it. What the hackers did was illegal, they hacked private information and then they tried blackmailing people (I thought I've read that anyway). The guy who killed himself isn't right for cheating or taking the easy way out and killing himself but this wouldn't have happened had his information not been made public. I think both parties are in the wrong here, the only difference is the hackers are breaking the law.

You said it yourself, you don't think the guy would have killed himself if his information wasn't made public. It was made public and he did, it caused it.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Poe969

But he wasn't really caught. Someone didn't do this just to catch him, they did it to make money off of people who use the site in general. If it was the guys wife or family member or something trying to catch him, I'm sure he would have acted differently. Instead it was someone trying to blackmail people who use the site in general and this guy was caught in the crossfire.

Affairs happen all the time in society, it sucks and it's horrible. There are only 3 real ways you find out about an affair, catching the person red handed, the person admitting to it or someone else finding out and telling you about it. The last has to be the worst way to find out devastating news, it's never good to hear about your own situation from others. In most cases when an affair happens and the other partner find out, it's between them and they have time to deal with it in their own way. This takes that right away from them.

Again, I don't condone cheating and I've been cheated on (by a girlfriend years ago) but there is nothing illegal about it. What the hackers did was illegal, they hacked private information and then they tried blackmailing people (I thought I've read that anyway). The guy who killed himself isn't right for cheating or taking the easy way out and killing himself but this wouldn't have happened had his information not been made public. I think both parties are in the wrong here, the only difference is the hackers are breaking the law.

You said it yourself, you don't think the guy would have killed himself if his information wasn't made public. It was made public and he did, it caused it.

That's actually not what happened. They did it to force them to shut down the site or they'd release. They didn't, they released and then others took the info to extort people after the fact.

So perhaps we should blame Ashley Madison for his death, and not the hackers. Since they provided an easy conduit for cheating that was insecure while inviting attempts by bragging about their security.

[Poe969]

wow. Just wow. Inviting attempts to crack their security? So if someone says they have a great car alarm it's ok to steal their car?

I was wrong about the hacker blackmailing the customer, instead they're blackmailing a company...that's different.

Facts: it isn't illegal to have a site like this. It isn't illegal to use the site. It isn't illegal to have an affair. This guy used the site. This guys information was made public. This guy kills himself after the information is made public.

Sure, the hackers didn't make the guy kill himself and they'd never be found guilty of his death. That doesn't mean they didn't cause it. You may think it's fine to do whatever they did or that they shouldn't be held accountable for anything that's directly happened because of them but even you said it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for them.

By the sounds of this, it seems you're ok with bullying too as long as the bully doesn't break the law. Whatever the victim does is on them. I really hope you lead a perfect life because you're essentially saying that if you do anything wrong in life, it's ok for everyone to know about it.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Poe969

wow. Just wow. Inviting attempts to crack their security? So if someone says they have a great car alarm it's ok to steal their car?

I was wrong about the hacker blackmailing the customer, instead they're blackmailing a company...that's different.

Facts: it isn't illegal to have a site like this. It isn't illegal to use the site. It isn't illegal to have an affair. This guy used the site. This guys information was made public. This guy kills himself after the information is made public.

Sure, the hackers didn't make the guy kill himself and they'd never be found guilty of his death. That doesn't mean they didn't cause it. You may think it's fine to do whatever they did or that they shouldn't be held accountable for anything that's directly happened because of them but even you said it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for them.

By the sounds of this, it seems you're ok with bullying too as long as the bully doesn't break the law. Whatever the victim does is on them. I really hope you lead a perfect life because you're essentially saying that if you do anything wrong in life, it's ok for everyone to know about it.

You keep doing things like this. These aren't direct comparisons so stop trying to turn them into one.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by nik-

You keep doing things like this. These aren't direct comparisons so stop trying to turn them into one.

if you get caught or exposed, possibly publicly, remember that whatever your doing was your decision and if you didn't know that there was a risk you'd get caught or exposed, then you're an idiot.

I'll just leave this here then.

[nik-]

Context: it's important. We were obviously talking about cheating. Stop being ridiculous.

Seriously, if this is the path you're taking in this discussion, just stop now.

[Poe969]

So context is important when we're judging others, ok got it.

We are talking about cheating but we're also talking about breaking the law. The hackers broke the law and someone is now dead as a direct result of this. Are you saying he got what was coming to him because he was a cheater?

[nik-]

That's not what I said at all. Jesus christ, can you even read?

I said it's not the hacker's responsibility. That's a whole other realm than saying he deserved to die. Can you understand that? Does that sink in?