[News] Patrick Kane being investigated for rape. UPD: DA announces no charges

[Kjesse]

I find it very troubling that the US system allows for the delay and likely ending of a criminal matter pending possible settlement of the matter with a payment.

In Canada, using the threat or possibility of a criminal sanction to obtain money is called extortion.

The two should operate entirely independently.

I'd like to hear some criminal lawyers' takes on this. Is MBates in the house?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The hockey world forgot all about the Doug Gilmour case.

Internet.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I find it very troubling that the US system allows for the delay and likely ending of a criminal matter pending possible settlement of the matter with a payment.

In Canada, using the threat or possibility of a criminal sanction to obtain money is called extortion.

The two should operate entirely independently.

I'd like to hear some criminal lawyers' takes on this. Is MBates in the house?

This. The criminal and civil aspects should proceed independently.

Perhaps the story has some inaccuracies? My suspicion would be that a plea deal might be in the works to avoid the grand jury.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The hockey world forgot all about the Doug Gilmour case.

To say nothing of the Ciccarelli, Courtnall, Sheehy, and Stevens case.

A 17-year-old waitress accused the four players of lewd behavior, claiming that three of them - Ciccarelli, Courtnall and Sheehy - committed rape and sodomy in one of the limousines that evening while Stevens served as a lookout.

http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-ca...in-free-agency

https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,5275205&hl=en

Ciccarelli, Courtnall, and Sheehy played a combined 1136 NHL games after this incident and Ciccarelli was inducted into the hall of fame.

[killer_carlson]

After what the Kobe Bryant defence team did to his accuser - and what the Court let them do - I can see why many victims do not want to go public. Even though the victims identity is to be kept confidential, Bryant's lawyer repeated it over and over in Court so that the media could hear it.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

But in a criminal matter, its not really up to the victim is it? If the police and DA believe a rape occurred, then are they not obligated to prosecute for no other reason than to protect society at large? I understand the DA may believe they don't have strong case or if victim refuses to testify, but then its still up to DA to decide to pursue, right?

I don't think they can force the victim to testify which could seriously harm the case depending on the circumstances.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

the only way that he wins here is with a full blown vindication,

Is that even possible? He could be found not guilty but some will still have in the back of their minds he did it, just got off because of good lawyers or lack of evidence or both.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by zamler

I don't think they can force the victim to testify which could seriously harm the case depending on the circumstances.

It doesn't just seriously harm it, it ends it.
These are he said/she said. If she says nothing, the only thing left is what he said.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by codynw

Forgive my ignorance, but why would they even discuss a settlement if he's innocent? I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I think the whole thing screams "guilty".

I can totally see your point, but I can also see it the other way as well. My head also goes to, if you were the victim why would you settle if he's guilty. A settlement does equal damage to both the alleged aggressor and alleged victim's cases in my head (which really doesn't help).

I can't relate to what either side is going through in this case (thankfully) so I really can't begin to understand what they may or may not be thinking with a settlement, but so far in this thread I've read some decent explanations on why either side might be interested in settling regardless of what the truth may be.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Especially with a case with rape charges, where it's reliant on testimony and a he said/she said argument

If she's telling the truth, she gets to avoid having to live through it again by having to testify and also the scrutiny of the next X amount of months. No one outside those who have been in the same situation know what it would be like to go through that.

for Kane, whether he's innocent or guilty he's making the right decision

as pointed above by Locke, the risk/reward is just not worth it for a trial for him, leaving your life in the hand of a jury where the evidence is for lack of a better term emotional isn't worth it for him

I just hope the NHL doesn't leave as is, they should be doing their own investigation

Agree with most of your post, but the bold part...........what do really propose the NHL do here. As has been discussed, what more do you expect them to get to the bottom to that hasn't been already by the Police and the DA, in what will likely boils down to an un-witnessed battle of he said she said.

Unless he's found guilty or more evidence is found (and it's not the NHLs place to start to try and conduct their own criminal investigation), I just wonder what fans are going to expect the NHL or individual teams to do? I don't think the NHL can deny him a job if one of the teams is willing to employ him...........and I'm sure someone will. Other than that, they can avoid using him to "promote" the game etc... but that's about it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by codynw

Forgive my ignorance, but why would they even discuss a settlement if he's innocent? I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I think the whole thing screams "guilty".

Seriously? Why would Kane risk his life and career if it's just going to cost him some money? He could be innocent and still be charged guilty which would likely ruin his life. If he can pay a million dollars to not have to risk it and just have this all dissappear why wouldn't he? I'd wonder if you were raped why you would care more about a settlement of money than getting justice and helping prevent this happening to other women. A settlement makes way more sense for Kane than the women in my eyes. I question why she would settle. Is she looking for justice or cash?

[justafan]

Guess we will all have to wait and see. Many women don't get their day in court and this person may not either.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I find it very troubling that the US system allows for the delay and likely ending of a criminal matter pending possible settlement of the matter with a payment.

In Canada, using the threat or possibility of a criminal sanction to obtain money is called extortion.

The two should operate entirely independently.

I'd like to hear some criminal lawyers' takes on this. Is MBates in the house?

So I take a brief pause from my prep for day 2 of my murder case to see what's what on CP and I'm getting a direct plea for my input!

Naturally, my ego being sufficiently pumped up, I feel compelled to oblige...

I have to say, what I found was rather surprising.

New York State Bar Ethics Opinion 821 says that so long as a District Attorney is satisfied he or she has probable cause to support a charge, and that it is provable, then they can propose a civil resolution in lieu of a criminal charge:

http://www.nysba.org/CustomTemplates...t.aspx?id=5220

On its face, one would think that if a DA is of the view they have probable cause and a provable case they should prosecute it...not drop it in favor of a civil settlement.

If this is indeed what is currently going on in the Kane matter it certainly raises some interesting questions...which I don't have time to pose or answer tonight...so I will leave this little landmine on the board and let everyone blow up over its implications...if it is being accurately reported.

As for the Canadian jurisdictions I have practiced in, I have seen on rare occasions a Crown Prosecutor agree to withdraw charges in exchange for restitution being paid...but it is always risky to connect the resolution of a criminal case to a civil outcome.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Hey MMF, how do you know someones a Lawyer on CP?

They'll mention it as often as possible.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Hey MMF, how do you know someones a Lawyer on CP?

They'll mention it as often as possible.

You mean like when someone asked for him specifically because they knew he was a lawyer?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You mean like when someone asked for him specifically because they knew he was a lawyer?

Mostly I meant CorsiHockeyLeauge.

[Kjesse]

All I'll say to this is, yes, (1) there are far too many lawyers on CP to the point I'd like to stop posting. It really is overdone. (2) Mbates is a rare example of someone who has distinguished themselves with their body of work, and recently has also posted on CP, that should be encouraged.

[Street Pharmacist]

I don't know why a posters profession should matter at all.


Except for lawyers. They're just horrible.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Lawyers ain't so bad, I'm just venting after mine let me down. I used Chareth Cutestory for a civil case, not knowing his expertise is mostly Martime law.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't know why a posters profession should matter at all.


Except for lawyers. They're just horrible.

[GGG]

I can see the victim wanting to settle here. A guilty verdict sends Kane to jail for a few years and any civil settlement could take years while your name is trashed.

This way the case ends, you get some justice and the world is at least warned about Kane. So I can understand taking the easy way out