Canucks Sign Baertschi

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Yeah, he demanded a trade. So what?

It's funny...

X player signs a contract to play for Y team for __ years and $__M.

Very frequently, the team decides that, notwithstanding their agreement, it's in their self-serving interest to unilaterally sever the relationship, trading the player. Now the player is told he's a member of a team he never agreed to play for, will be moving to a city he never agreed to live in, and has to uproot his family, sell his house, etc. And not infrequently, when it's a deadline deal, the player is going from a team that he sweated and bled to put in a position to win a cup, to a team going nowhere. And when that happens, the player is expected to keep a stiff upper lip and say, "It's a business."

Yet when it's the player who unilaterally decides that it's in his and his family's best interest to sever the relationship, he's Benedict Arnold. Why is it not a business in this case?

If you had put a number of years into your employment organization and felt you were mired in a low level position with little chance of moving up, and felt that you could jump to another organization and have a much better chance to progress your career, making 5 times as much in short order, would you not jump at that, for yourself and your family? I sure as hell would.

And you know what? Baertschi got a 1-way deal from Vancouver, which he probably wouldn't have got from Calgary, and has a great chance to win a spot on Vancouver's opening roster, which he would have had a much more difficult time doing this year in Calgary. So, as a fellow member of the labour force in a somewhat unsatisfying employment position, I say good for him.

And sure, I'd prefer that his success come somewhere other than Vancouver. But that destination was Treliving's choice, not his.

Sure he was within his right. Nowhere did I say differently. I'm just outlining the reasons why fans don't care for him.
I still don't get why some try to make excuses for him. Everything he has said since leaving the Flames reinforces that he thinks he's entitled, and doesn't think he should have to put in the work to make the NHL. And I guess the Canucks are proving him right.

But there are all sorts of valid reasons why Flames fans shouldn't be rooting for this guy. You can if you want - I just find that choice very odd.

[Vulcan]

I sometimes think that those with the biggest expectations of a player are the quickest to turn on them when they fail. Baertschi had lost his spot with the Flames and whether he asked for a trade or not, the best thing for all concerned was for him to be traded. I'm glad he's gone and I'm glad we got a second for him, which worked out well for us, but I don't wish him any ill will in his career.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Mike F

And saying "we're going to criticize/refuse to praise a player just because he's a member of the Canucks" isn't much of a defense. It just undermines anyone's attempts to give an actual warranted critique of Canucks.

Vehemently disagree with this. I think that is a perfectly valid reason.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Don't you mean...Svenedict Arnold?

[FlameZilla]

Sven arrived in Calgary as an opportunistic goal scorer and playmaker. He had some early success in the NHL because he wasn't immediately expected to put in a shift in the defensive zone. In his early Calgary career he learned some bad habits from some cherry-picking, neutral-zone-floating ex-Flames. These bad habits may have extended off-ice to his attitude towards entitlement. The media certainly didn't help with the latter aspect, passing him the Iggy torch on the front page of the paper after he scored a couple of goals.

Then Burke arrives. When Sven was asked to hone the defensive side of his game he lost his cutting edge ability to pick up points. From then on he always seemed a step or two behind the play in the offensive zone, and while some of that could have been due to a few knocks to his confidence, I actually think his whole game is based on cherry-picking & letting other players take care of the defensive zone for him so he can get an extra step on the opposing D. Tending to his own defensive responsibilities exposed the fact that he didn't have enough foot speed to transition from defense to offence & he was therefore always on the back foot. All his offence dried up, as did his confidence, as did his relationship with the management & the franchise. The way he played out his final months in Calgary I'd say we were lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

He could prove to be a decent 2nd line point-producer, but he's not well-rounded enough to suit team success. Basically, he's perfect for the Canucks. They'll be really happy if he scores 50 points but is a minus-20; the kind of player who makes the highlight reels but will never win you a trophy. Shame it didn't work out here, but truthfully we have better young players who play more complete hockey, and they didn't struggle as much to understand the concept that there is no 'I' in 'hockey team'.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

But there are all sorts of valid reasons why Flames fans shouldn't be rooting for this guy. You can if you want - I just find that choice very odd.

Multiple multi-hundred post threads goes beyond "not rooting for him" into obsessively criticizing, which is what triggered my initial post.

[Caged Great]

This is the exact reason when heading into a rebuild that you need 15-20 top tier prospects. Not every one of them is going to work out with your team for one reason or another. In this case it was concussions combined with a bad attitude and lack of work ethic. Other times it'll be because a player can't seem to take those next steps in their development, sort of like what's going on with Sieloff at the moment.

It's always frustrating when one of the guys you're rooting for doesn't work out, but he's now someone else's to deal with and hopefully he can get out of his own way and become reasonably successful.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Multiple multi-hundred post threads goes beyond "not rooting for him" into obsessively criticizing, which is what triggered my initial post.

The criticizing began a long time before the trade. I got blasted by a bunch of posters here when I criticized Baertschi. Others did as well. He is the complete opposite of 'non-stop motor' and determination. That is his biggest downfall. That was what people seemed to have glossed over in the famous "Burke Blasts Baertschi" speech. He was a fairly high first round pick, and the 'face of the future'. How can you expect him not to get critiqued?

Why root for a prospect that the Flames continually gave every opportunity to succeed (I thought Ferland looked much better than Baertschi, but he gets sent down and Baertschi stays at the start of the season??), and then when things don't go his way he gives the Flames an ultimatum?

Post trade, he says completely idiotic stuff like: "they called up other prospects and it was like they were shoving it in my face".

How people really defend him is beyond me. I liked this kid the year the Flames drafted him. I loved him the year after. I thought he was 'svensational' the year after too - even through what I thought was just 'growing pains' and 'injury aftermath'.

No, the kid has no character. No perseverance. He thinks other prospects were called up ahead of him to 'shove it in his face', so he obviously thought he was more deserving and a better player.

Sorry, but I will root against him. I will cheer on Max Reinhart. He stuck with it, and he got passed after being the 'darling' for a year or two. Flames gave him an opportunity, and I hope he does really well in Nashville. I just can't fathom how people still defend Baertschi after seeing his lack of compete, and then his pouting (HIS OWN WORDS!! Remember his mom told him to stop pouting??) when things didn't come easily.

He gave Flames fans ample reason to start criticizing him (I think as a whole, Flames' fans didn't do enough of it when the signs were there) while he was a Flame. After the trade? You simply can not defend what he has said. How people don't see that the Flames gave him every chance - and then some! - to be successful here is beyond me.

Anyone can go ahead and cheer for him. I can see you are a big huge fan of his, and that's fine. Just don't go around on a Flames' message board and telling other fans that they have no reason to blast this kid and root against him, especially considering he is a Canuck. I think it was you (or maybe someone else now) that stated the more they see posts that are rooting against Baertschi, the more they want to cheer for him. Well, it works the opposite way as well - I know for myself, the more I read "Sven Support", the more I hope he falls squarely on his face and runs back to daddy in Switzerland to kiss his boo boos better.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

It's amazing how pride works. Many folks that rushed out to buy a Sven jersey a few years back, and likely bragged or tried to convince their Oiler and Nucks fan buddies that when things looked bleakest in Flames land, that everything would be ok because we had young talent too, and that Sven would lead the next generation of a successful Flames squad, are still to this day struggling with the likely passionate stance they took back then.

Where the pride comes in, is they'd rather consistently defend Sven (really what they are doing is defending themselves and their premature declarations that he was the Flames saviour), rather say their favourite team miss handled a delicate young talent, than admit that the ran out to buy a #47 jersey a little too quickly.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

It's amazing how pride works. Many folks that rushed out to buy a Sven jersey a few years back, and likely bragged or tried to convince their Oiler and Nucks fan buddies that when things looked bleakest in Flames land, that everything would be ok because we had young talent too, and that Sven would lead the next generation of a successful Flames squad, are still to this day struggling with the likely passionate stance they took back then.

Where the pride comes in, is they'd rather consistently defend Sven (really what they are doing is defending themselves and their premature declarations that he was the Flames saviour), rather say their favourite team miss handled a delicate young talent, than admit that the ran out to buy a #47 jersey a little too quickly.

Similar to the pride you felt when making this post. Or the pride I just felt making my own. We're all too human.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mike F

To be honest, the more people on this site obsessively rag on Baertschi, the more I hope he turns into a solid NHL player, even if it is with the Canucks. I really don't understand the dislike or need to constantly put forth an argument about his perceived shortcomings.

Ah, okay, I get it. You bought a Baertschi jersey during his 4 games of godliness didnt you?

[FlamesAddiction]

I am not rooting against him. I really don't care at all if he figures things out and has a decent career.

As things stand right now though, I think he is a net negative asset and it will take a lot for him to turn things around. I just don't think he will. That doesn't mean that I want him to fail, I just think he will (or pretty much already has failed).

He will be 23 years old by the time the regular season starts. How many 1st round forward picks that don't figure it out and make the NHL full time before they are 23 actually go on to have long careers as a top 6? My guess is not that many.

[Red Potato Standing By]

I hope he does well, just not when he is playing against the flames,then I hope he sucks like the rest of the team he is on.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Then Burke arrives. When Sven was asked to hone the defensive side of his game he lost his cutting edge ability to pick up points. From then on he always seemed a step or two behind the play in the offensive zone, and while some of that could have been due to a few knocks to his confidence, I actually think his whole game is based on cherry-picking & letting other players take care of the defensive zone for him so he can get an extra step on the opposing D. Tending to his own defensive responsibilities exposed the fact that he didn't have enough foot speed to transition from defense to offence & he was therefore always on the back foot. All his offence dried up, as did his confidence, as did his relationship with the management & the franchise. The way he played out his final months in Calgary I'd say we were lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

You are glossing over the biggest negative in the entire Sven legacy... the way Burke dealt with Sven.

It was insane the microscope he focused on Sven and the complete job he did of destroying Sven's confidence.

History will tell if Sven was underachieving, Burke was an idiot, or a bit of both. If that was Burke's attempt at motivating, it was a horrible attempt. If it was him putting his stamp on the team early, he could have certainly handled it more politically, or flipped Sven for an asset while he was more valuable. Burke basically ruined his confidence and value all in one stroke, with very little upside. I am not a Burke hater, but I certainly wasn't impressed then.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Serapth

You are glossing over the biggest negative in the entire Sven legacy... the way Burke dealt with Sven.

It was insane the microscope he focused on Sven and the complete job he did of destroying Sven's confidence.

History will tell if Sven was underachieving, Burke was an idiot, or a bit of both. If that was Burke's attempt at motivating, it was a horrible attempt. If it was him putting his stamp on the team early, he could have certainly handled it more politically, or flipped Sven for an asset while he was more valuable. Burke basically ruined his confidence and value all in one stroke, with very little upside. I am not a Burke hater, but I certainly wasn't impressed then.

I too felt badly for Sven when Burke said:

"There are three zones in the ice surfaces in this league. I don’t see that he’s learned to play and compete in two of them. He’s got to learn there’s a clock in this league and there’s so many minutes in the game and that you’ve got to compete through all of it. I see this is a guy who’s focusing on one area [scoring] and even then, sporadically,” Burke said. “So I don’t know what we have.

“I’m not ready to quit on a young kid. I’m not ready to throw him under the bus here today and rip him, but I think you can tell from my comments that I see big holes and I see a lack of commitment that’s not going to get him anywhere in my books.”

How Sven even managed to continue playing professional ice hockey after such a scathing public tongue lashing astounds me. I know that I would have simply spent the rest of my adult life weeping in solitude.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle14610874/

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Serapth

You are glossing over the biggest negative in the entire Sven legacy... the way Burke dealt with Sven.

It was insane the microscope he focused on Sven and the complete job he did of destroying Sven's confidence.

History will tell if Sven was underachieving, Burke was an idiot, or a bit of both. If that was Burke's attempt at motivating, it was a horrible attempt. If it was him putting his stamp on the team early, he could have certainly handled it more politically, or flipped Sven for an asset while he was more valuable. Burke basically ruined his confidence and value all in one stroke, with very little upside. I am not a Burke hater, but I certainly wasn't impressed then.

Seriously, if Sven couldn't deal with the pressure of being expected to play at both ends of the ice, how the hell was he going to handle the pressure of playing in the NHL as a star player? Baertschi is mentally weak, and that is going to keep him out of the NHL.

[zyzz]

I said it once and I'll say it again. Sven will put up more points than any Flames this season.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by zyzz

I said it once and I'll say it again. Sven will put up more points than any Flames this season.

In what league?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by zyzz

I said it once and I'll say it again. Sven will put up more points than any Flames this season.

I know it's Labour Day and all but isn't it still a little early to be that drunk?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by zyzz

I said it once and I'll say it again. Sven will put up more points than any Flames this season.

Im the biggest Baertschi supporter I know and I would say that absolute best case scenario for Sven would put him at 6-7 on the Flames and likely 8-9 over a full 82 games span with about 35 points.