Smid thinks he is ready. UPD: Hopes to be cleared for mid October

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Let's try it again...

Giordano and Brodie were. the. best. pairing. in. the. league. last. year.

Arguable.

Their offensive production was #1 sure. Their puck-moving and transition game as well. But you'd have a hard time making a good argument that they were the best pairing at defending.

[Enoch Root]

Everyone is trying to come up with the best set of 3 pairings. I think we can look at it a different way.

Let's look at TOI:

Giordano 24-25
Brodie 24-25
Hamilton 24-25
Russell 18-20
Wideman 18-20

That leaves 5-12 minutes for the 6th Dman. Let's use 10 minutes for simple math. That means we can go with something like the following:

Eng/Tspoon/SMid - Hamilton: 10 minutes
Russell - Wideman: 18-20 minutes
Giordano - Brodie / Giordano - Hamilton / Brodie - Hamilton 30 -32 minutes

In other words, Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton should all be playing more than 20 minutes each, and can rotate around, depending on the situation, with Gio/Brodie as the primary pairing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Also, Brodie has shown the more chemistry with Engelland than any other defenseman has so playing them together isn't that much of a stretch.

And hes young and in shape!

Gio - Brodie
Wideman- Russell
Brodie - Engelland
Hamilton - Gio

Perfect! Who needs 'Artley when I'm available??

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by saillias

Arguable.

Their offensive production was #1 sure. Their puck-moving and transition game as well. But you'd have a hard time making a good argument that they were the best pairing at defending.

Check out their zone starts and quality of competition.

[Poe969]

That is probably the best way I've heard it explained. I think treating them all separately works the best and it actually takes into consideration special teams a lot more.

My God am I excited for this year to start even if it's just to watch the D.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Everyone is trying to come up with the best set of 3 pairings. I think we can look at it a different way.

Let's look at TOI:

Giordano 24-25
Brodie 24-25
Hamilton 24-25
Russell 18-20
Wideman 18-20

That leaves 5-12 minutes for the 6th Dman. Let's use 10 minutes for simple math. That means we can go with something like the following:

Eng/Tspoon/SMid - Hamilton: 10 minutes
Russell - Wideman: 18-20 minutes
Giordano - Brodie / Giordano - Hamilton / Brodie - Hamilton 30 -32 minutes

In other words, Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton should all be playing more than 20 minutes each, and can rotate around, depending on the situation, with Gio/Brodie as the primary pairing.

This needs to be thanked a lot more.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Everyone is trying to come up with the best set of 3 pairings. I think we can look at it a different way.

Let's look at TOI:

Giordano 24-25
Brodie 24-25
Hamilton 24-25
Russell 18-20
Wideman 18-20

That leaves 5-12 minutes for the 6th Dman. Let's use 10 minutes for simple math. That means we can go with something like the following:

Eng/Tspoon/SMid - Hamilton: 10 minutes
Russell - Wideman: 18-20 minutes
Giordano - Brodie / Giordano - Hamilton / Brodie - Hamilton 30 -32 minutes

In other words, Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton should all be playing more than 20 minutes each, and can rotate around, depending on the situation, with Gio/Brodie as the primary pairing.

I think coaches try not rotating partners too much if they can help it. At least in my experience and what I can see on the surface level of the NHL.

I think Bob is going to want to settle into 3 pairings that work best. Then he'll have his primary and secondary pairings for PP/PK, and adjust through the year as necessary.

Rotating guys through the pairings can potentially ruin chemistry, flow and positive habits, especially now when you have six fully capable NHL D-men.

[Vulcan]

I think it's ridiculous that we can't think about breaking up Russell-Wideman.

they should be the first choice to move around.

[Poe969]

I could see Russell-Engelland being a good defensive tandem while Wideman and Hamilton could have a lot of high offense potential.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I could see Russell-Engelland being a good defensive tandem while Wideman and Hamilton could have a lot of high offense potential.

I think those two would get pinned in their own zone. Too similar and not enough balance.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Also, Brodie has shown the more chemistry with Engelland than any other defenseman has so playing them together isn't that much of a stretch.

It just seems fair to say that the pairing with Engelland on it is going to get the least ice time of the three. As such, pairing any of Giordano, Brodie, or Hamilton with Engelland means you're underutilizing Engelland's partner. Whichever of those three it is. Unless you're double shifting Engelland's partner, which in turn throws off the other pairings.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Everyone is trying to come up with the best set of 3 pairings. I think we can look at it a different way.

Let's look at TOI:

Giordano 24-25
Brodie 24-25
Hamilton 24-25
Russell 18-20
Wideman 18-20

That leaves 5-12 minutes for the 6th Dman. Let's use 10 minutes for simple math. That means we can go with something like the following:

Eng/Tspoon/SMid - Hamilton: 10 minutes
Russell - Wideman: 18-20 minutes
Giordano - Brodie / Giordano - Hamilton / Brodie - Hamilton 30 -32 minutes

In other words, Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton should all be playing more than 20 minutes each, and can rotate around, depending on the situation, with Gio/Brodie as the primary pairing.

No doubt Hartley has spent a lot of time and thought about a plan just like this, and can tweak it as needed depending who's on or off on any given night. It goes away from his tendency to keep pairs together like he has in his entire tenure here - but a plan like this best utilizes the talents of his top 5 defensemen. And this is really just an extension of juggling that needs to be done due to penalties anyway.

[codynw]

It's rare to have the luxury of 3 lefties and 3 righties. Since they can, I think it would make a lot of sense to have one of each per pairing.

Giordano / Hamilton
Brodie / Wideman
Russell / Engelland

Something like that.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Check out their zone starts and quality of competition.

I've generally seen them. Fancy hero graphs, yes they have the blue lines filling up the whole graph, it looks nice. And the dark blue bubbles on those other charts.

If these charts were the be all end all, Russell and Wideman would be out of the league and Hamilton would be a #1 D right now.

It's just one piece of the puzzle... When did analytics become THE authority on rating stuff?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by saillias

I've generally seen them. Fancy hero graphs, yes they have the blue lines filling up the whole graph, it looks nice. And the dark blue bubbles on those other charts.

If these charts were the be all end all, Russell and Wideman would be out of the league and Hamilton would be a #1 D right now.

It's just one piece of the puzzle... When did analytics become THE authority on rating stuff?

They're not. But you started this conversation by saying "But you'd have a hard time making a good argument that they were the best pairing at defending".

Every metric shows that they are in fact among the best at defending.

They faced pretty much the hardest competition, and had among the toughest zone starts. Yet they STILL dominated the toughest competition.

If you have other evidence that contradicts this, I would love to see it. But all evidence that I have seen supports that they are excellent at defending.

And you have presented zero evidence to support your assertion that they are not.

[Otto-matic]

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=778130

"It was good, it was positive. He looks really good," Treliving said during his media availability on Wednesday. "The injury is healing. It will be close to month from when he [was] seen to when he gets seen at training camp.

"As to whether he can participate, my sense right now is that everything is progressing well, he's not necessarily going to be ready for contact at training camp ... it was a positive report but we'll see where he is and what steps to take once we get to camp."

[420since1974]

Bob Hartley on Sportnet960 today:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-m...er-and-pinder/

He seems to be against evening out the minutes among the D.
His Top 2 pairings will see the most ice-time by far.

To me, that means some combination of Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, & Wideman for the Top 2 pairings which leave Russell - Engelland for the bottom pairing.

Right now, it appears that Smid will not be ready for contact at training camp, so I'd guess that one of Morrison, Nakladal, or Wotherspoon will be the 7th D to start the season.

[cannon7]

Wish Engelland wasn't the best option we had for Brodie. Engelland should be our #7, albeit a ridiculously overpaid one.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by 420since1974

Bob Hartley on Sportnet960 today:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-m...er-and-pinder/

He seems to be against evening out the minutes among the D.
His Top 2 pairings will see the most ice-time by far.

To me, that means some combination of Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, & Wideman for the Top 2 pairings which leave Russell - Engelland for the bottom pairing.

Right now, it appears that Smid will not be ready for contact at training camp, so I'd guess that one of Morrison, Nakladal, or Wotherspoon will be the 7th D to start the season.

I could see something like Smid - Wideman or Wotherspoon - Wideman as the bottom pair as well. Toss up between Russell or Wideman for the third pair, and it might vary from game to game.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by saillias

I've generally seen them. Fancy hero graphs, yes they have the blue lines filling up the whole graph, it looks nice. And the dark blue bubbles on those other charts.

If these charts were the be all end all, Russell and Wideman would be out of the league and Hamilton would be a #1 D right now.

It's just one piece of the puzzle... When did analytics become THE authority on rating stuff?

It's really a head-scratcher that you find this such a sticking point to argue.

The Norris has generally been given to the highest scoring d-man.

Suggesting Gio-Brodie were the regarded as one of (if not THE) best pairings in the league last year wasn't just because they were one dimensional. They got it done at both ends of the ice.

I wouldn't call them stalwarts in their own end, but they weren't as questionable back there as you're suggesting.

Both of them are above average in their own end, use smart decision making and active sticks. Gio's physical game is under-rated.

They've been called the best pairing in the league last year... because they were.