Kevin O'Leary nails it.

[aaronck]

People are talking like the NDP has invaded Alberta after they were given the election in a random draw or something. The were voted in because the PCs were just awful, called an election they thought they couldn't lose, and then mistake after mistake (plus the stench of Redford) made Alberta vote for anyone else but them. If the PCs were in power things might be slightly different, maybe better, maybe worse. But the sun has come up every day since the election and so far my life hasn't changed for the better or worse because of the NDP. If the PCs are voted out in the Federal election they again can only blame themselves, Harper has outstayed his welcome and is not so honest IMO, but at the federal level it's unfortunately not voting for who's best, it's voting for the lesser evil or in this case, the devil you know.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

May I ask what makes you, in the face of how well Oil WAS doing and how little we have in our back pocket to show for it, think we were ever getting our fair share?

Because we (Canada) has no equity stake in our oil production. And because we've spent it. We did have a substantial savings fund through the 80's, but people want spending. Most of the issue is that we have absolutely no ability to tell private companies to pay us more. We can't say, "take it or leave it" because we don't have a back up plan. Again, we love spending so we need the corporates giving us jobs, taxes and royalties. If you're willing to load the shovels up, drive to ft mac and start filling up buckets, then you can say that it is your resource and you want to get the most out of it. Until then, you're at the mercy of oil companies. In that sense, of course this should have been reviewed in the $100 oil era.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by firebug

As the individual in my firm who does all of the project valuation modelling I thought I'd take a look at some of our historical approved projects to see how much of an impact the tax change makes...

10% Tax Rate: IRR 14.2%; PVAT7% $2,427.4MM
12% Tax rate: IRR 13.9%; PVAT7% $2,378.2MM

So a while a 20% tax increase sounds like a big bogeyman, it only impacted our PV by 2% (What a surprise ;-). A change that small is unlikely to affect project approval for all but the most marginal of projects (which likely wouldn't have flown anyways).

Those who are trying to blame the NDP for the lack of corporate investment in the current economic climate are barking up the wrong tree and are displaying their lack of real-world experience in these matters.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...llion-net-loss

CNRL posted a $405-million loss for the quarter, compared to $1 billion in earnings during the same period last year.

The company attributed the loss to a $579 million charge as a result of the recent hike in Alberta’s corporate tax rate, to 12 per cent from 10 per cent, introduced by the newly elected NDP in June.

If they paid $579M due to the 2% increase, and lost $405M overall, that means that they would have made something like $174M in profit.

Instead of using a potential $174M to pay dividends (which all help all of our RRSPs) or put that money towards future investment (which help all Albertans), the company above can do neither thanks Rachel.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Not at all, it shows what happens when the right leaning vote is split and a group of naïve people throw their support behind a charismatic socialist.

I think comments like this show how naive people are to changing demographics. People of an older generation than mine seem to think this is just a blip in the radar and the result of protest votes. I don't think this is the case. Attitudes are changing, particularly towards the oil sector and what they should be paying back as a result of profiting off the resource in our ground in a huge way. There is also a huge shift in how people look at the attainability of renewable resources, which sours many people on oil and gas in general.

I know many people who voted NDP knowing full well it would likely affect their employment directly, purely because they couldn't let their personal gain outweigh what they perceive as larger social issues.

I think people that think this is an aberration are in for a surprise.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

One of the things that I heard over the dinner table from a family member is that the company she works for which is a "Major" has stated no capital investments outside of stuff in China and I didn't ask what this meant "Steam"

So basically they've turned off the capital taps in Alberta.

If someone can tell me what Steam is, I'm assuming it has to do with extraction, but I was too drunk to ask and understand.

The "Steam" referred to is that of either steam injection for Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage (SAGD) in a well or SAGD in a bitumen processing facility. The steam heats the oil sand and the oil runs off where it is collected and further processed.

[polak]

I think it's hilarious that some of you seem to think this would be going any different right now if the PC's won. They're clearly an example of great economic management...

I'll admit I'm not too happy with how the NDP is conducting business but neither the Wildrose or the PC's had any sort of plan to actually increase revenue for the province. Just stupid one time cuts that would be erased by the next election anyways.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by polak

I think it's hilarious that some of you seem to think this would be going any different right now if the PC's won. They're clearly an example of great economic management...

I'll admit I'm not too happy with how the NDP is conducting business but neither the Wildrose or the PC's had any sort of plan to actually increase revenue for the province. Just stupid one time cuts that would be erased by the next election anyways.

The global economy has gone to #### and you think somehow an Alberta government can defy it? There is no revenue to increase. You can't tax and spend your way out of this.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by polak

I think it's hilarious that some of you seem to think this would be going any different right now if the PC's won.

As much as I dislike NDP, you are probably right. Just like the Who's lyrics, here's the new boss, same as the old boss. This is our dilemma.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...llion-net-loss

CNRL posted a $405-million loss for the quarter, compared to $1 billion in earnings during the same period last year.

The company attributed the loss to a $579 million charge as a result of the recent hike in Alberta’s corporate tax rate, to 12 per cent from 10 per cent, introduced by the newly elected NDP in June.

If they paid $579M due to the 2% increase, and lost $405M overall, that means that they would have made something like $174M in profit.

Instead of using a potential $174M to pay dividends (which all help all of our RRSPs) or put that money towards future investment (which help all Albertans), the company above can do neither thanks Rachel.

Again, if you don't understand it, don't quote it.

That isn't a charge to the government (i.e. no cash impact). In fact, if you read their financials (Q2 - 2015 note 7) you'll see that their H1 2015 deferred income tax expense is $60 MM lower than H1 2014 (209 vs 269) and current taxes paid are -3MM for Q2 (ie they got money back) and -108MM for H1.

Do they figure they will have to pay more in the future, of course, but it's being reported like they have to pay $579 right now, when in reality in North America they only had to pay $79mm (vs $225mm last year) in the quarter. The $579MM is an accounting gimmick (aren't they all) that they are using to score some political points and put pressure on the government.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

The global economy has gone to #### and you think somehow an Alberta government can defy it? There is no revenue to increase. You can't tax and spend your way out of this.

The global economy was fine while the PC's squandered every last penny of Alberta's 15 years of prosperity. But yeah, vote for them. They clearly know what they're doing.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by polak

The global economy was fine while the PC's squandered every last penny of Alberta's 15 years of prosperity. But yeah, vote for them. They clearly know what they're doing.

It's a good thing they put all that money away while things were ridiculously good

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think comments like this show how naive people are to changing demographics. People of an older generation than mine seem to think this is just a blip in the radar and the result of protest votes. I don't think this is the case. Attitudes are changing, particularly towards the oil sector and what they should be paying back as a result of profiting off the resource in our ground in a huge way. There is also a huge shift in how people look at the attainability of renewable resources, which sours many people on oil and gas in general.

I know many people who voted NDP knowing full well it would likely affect their employment directly, purely because they couldn't let their personal gain outweigh what they perceive as larger social issues.

I think people that think this is an aberration are in for a surprise.

I'm not buying what you're selling here, my friend.
So, for example, a majority of Conoco employees layed off today knew this would happen when they voted NDP, but chose to take one for the greater good of Albertans?

[calf]

Originally Posted by firebug

Again, if you don't understand it, don't quote it.

That isn't a charge to the government (i.e. no cash impact). In fact, if you read their financials (Q2 - 2015 note 7) you'll see that their H1 2015 deferred income tax expense is $60 MM lower than H1 2014 (209 vs 269) and current taxes paid are -3MM for Q2 (ie they got money back) and -108MM for H1.

Do they figure they will have to pay more in the future, of course, but it's being reported like they have to pay $579 right now, when in reality in North America they only had to pay $79mm (vs $225mm last year) in the quarter. The $579MM is an accounting gimmick (aren't they all) that they are using to score some political points and put pressure on the government.

The corporations should be paying these deferred taxes!!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

In answer to the ridiculous question about raising corporate taxes by 2% (i know 20% sounds scarier so go ahead and use that number if you like) is a possibly bad idea because of the state of oil...or royalty reviews...

Saying it's being increased 2% is inaccurate. If you want to speak in those terms, the correct way to say it is "two percentage points". Two percentage points represents a 20% increase over the existing rate.

Whatever sounds scarier is irrelevant, how about everyone just uses language that reflects reality for a change.

yes. Great idea. Business should pay their fair share. We shouldn't get involved with a race to the bottom. We have lots of oil, and that demand will eventually go right back up as well as prices. When that happens I'd like to make sure we aren't getting bent over a table.

Buzzphrases like "pay your fair share" are meaningless babble. It does not constitute a justification for anything. The amount business should pay in income tax is policy driven and depends upon a ton of factors, including what we're worried about here in terms of erosion the overall tax base. Why do you think it's a great idea? Please provide specific policy reasons.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I'm not buying what you're selling here, my friend.
So, for example, a majority of Conoco employees layed off today knew this would happen when they voted NDP, but chose to take one for the greater good of Albertans?

Well, I'd have to get you to point out where I said a majority of oil company employees voted NDP, which I would guess is not true.

What I can say is that, yes, the majority of the people I know, which are mostly in my age group, who work(ed) in O&G, voted NDP and knew full well it would likely affect their employment. One of which actually said those words to me, the ones you noted above. "I know I should vote PC, but I just can't let my personal career path get in the way of my social values." That guy in particular was a field geologist who was layed off at the time of the election (hint BEFORE the NDP got in. Almost as though all of this was happening before and it's not their fault. GASP). He's now off to a masters program in England.

I know multiple geologists and engineers in their early-mid twenties, who are being hit hard by all of this, who think this way. This is an attitude shift amongst many people in my age group. It's not an aberration, it's an evolution.

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Well, I'd have to get you to point out where I said a majority of oil company employees voted NDP, which I would guess is not true.

What I can say is that, yes, the majority of the people I know, which are mostly in my age group, who work(ed) in O&G, voted NDP and knew full well it would likely affect their employment. One of which actually said those words to me, the ones you noted above. "I know I should vote PC, but I just can't let my personal career path get in the way of my social values." I know multiple geologists and engineers in their early-mid twenties, who are being hit hard by all of this, who think this way.

This is an attitude shift amongst many people in my age group. It's not an aberration, it's an evolution.

Yup. First generation ever to think they were going to change the world while in their early twenties.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by WCan_Kid

Yup. First generation ever to think they were going to change the world while in their early twenties.

I never said that, in fact I would argue against your sarcastic post and say that every generation HAS changed the world, whether it was for the better or worse is up to interpretation. They change it purely by having their attitudes end up in positions of power as they grow into the work force. Prohibition, civil rights, womens rights, the red scare, terrorism, are all the result of changing attitudes ending up in positions where they can actually inact change.

People act like we've never had national or even global shifts in social and economic issues.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by WCan_Kid

Yup. First generation ever to think they were going to change the world while in their early twenties.

Lots of variations of similar quotes from history.

The earliest known version of this observation is attributed to mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot:

Not to be a socialist at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by polak

I think it's hilarious that some of you seem to think this would be going any different right now if the PC's won. They're clearly an example of great economic management...

I'll admit I'm not too happy with how the NDP is conducting business but neither the Wildrose or the PC's had any sort of plan to actually increase revenue for the province. Just stupid one time cuts that would be erased by the next election anyways.

This is inaccurate. Prentice's budget included various revenue increases.

1) Abolished flat tax in favor of a progressive system
2) Healthcare levy
3) Gas tax
4) Sin taxes (smokes and booze)
5) Various fee increases (camping, mariage certificates, traffic fines, etc.)

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by MattyC

He's now off to a masters program in England.

So nice of him to be in it for the long haul here in Alberta. Vote for a government hostile to the oil and gas industry and **** off to England so he doesn't have to deal with the fallout. Let someone else feel the pain!