Ranking the Canadian Teams

[Daradon]

Great summary, I'm surprised you have Winnipeg-s D as edging out Calgary. I'm not too worried about our third pairing anymore, as one of Wideman or Russell will be spending most of his time there. It was brutal last season yes, but Hamilton not only adds to his line, he makes the whole roster deeper.

The top three as you have them could all leapfrog. Probably end up within 5 points between the top and third team. No problem with the order you have. Personally I think I go Montreal, Winnipeg, Calgary, as Montreal is in the easiest div, but yeah it's close and could go either way.

I see Vancouver as falling the most. But they still may not be as bad as Edm or Toronto. They are aging like crazy and last years playoffs proved they cant even keep up with a team injured dramitically. Edmonton COULD catch them. But like you said, I'll believe it when I see it.

[jammies]

The Oilers are actually a team that doesn't any areas of strength. Hard as it is to believe, from top to bottom they are terrible to mediocre, that is if you use non-"visually better" metrics like team success and stat rankings. Their top-six might make it all the way to middling this year if everything pans out, but that's it, and saying they have any "elite" players is simply false, there is a vast difference between *potentially* elite and what their players have demonstrated when playing NHL level hockey.

See, if your top six forwards don't score, and don't stop other teams from scoring, they can't be rated as objectively"good". It's not complicated, those are the two main functions of a hockey player: score, or stop the other team from scoring. Not even tangentially important are things like making the occasional sick dangle, looking like maybe you could score if the other team didn't cheat and actually dare to check you, or skating around behind the net beautifully to pick up enough speed to make it to the bench before a goal against goes in.

They might end up being better than Toronto, but Toronto has Mike Babcock, and I'll bet they beat out the Oilers by 3-5 points on his coaching alone. So the rankings should go (with up and down trending arrows):

^Calgary - ^Winnipeg
^Ottawa
~Montreal
vVancouver
~Toronto
^Edmonton

[Enoch Root]

Also, the category was forwards. Not top 6. Forwards. So let's compare:

Hall - RBH - Eberle
Pouliot - McDavid - Yakupov
Korpikoski - Draisaitl - Purcell
Klinkhammer - Letestu - Hendricks
Gazdig, Lander

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Bennett - Colborne
Raymond - Stajan - Jones
Byron - Granlund - Jooris
Bollig - Shore

As for the top line, the simple fact of the matter is that the Flames' #1 line outscored HallsyNugeEbs - and they are better defensively

The Oilers 2nd line has tones of potential, no question. But for now, Yakupov is a disaster and McSavior is 18.

As for the Flames 2nd line, here's where things get difficult for the YouTube crowd: defense actually matters. And the Flames actually have a line that can shut down the opposition's top line

3rd lines both revolve around a 19 year old but any sane hockey fan would take ours over theirs

4th line is no contest (take your pick for personnel)

And then there is one more factor: depth. Injuries are a part of the game. And the Oilers have absolutely no depth at all. One injury to Hall, Nuge or - heaven forbid - McDavid, and Oiler fans will be setting their sites on the draft. Again.

Conversely, the Flames have too many NHL forwards, and showed last year that they can absorb injuries and keep winning.

Bottom line: the Flames forward group is easily better than the Oilers, when you look top to bottom and at all roles. And that is why the OP correctly rated them higher.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by jammies

Their top-six might make it all the way to middling this year if everything pans out, but that's it, and saying they have any "elite" players is simply false, there is a vast difference between *potentially* elite and what their players have demonstrated when playing NHL level hockey.

An 80 point winger isn't "elite"?

Sure he's not gonna win a Selke, but neither are Ovechkin, Kessel or Kane. Hall is an elite scoring winger (assuming he bounces back, cause he had a real bad year last year).

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by codynw

An 80 point winger isn't "elite"?

Sure he's not gonna win a Selke, but neither are Ovechkin, Kessel or Kane. Hall is an elite scoring winger (assuming he bounces back, cause he had a real bad year last year).

Calling him an 80 point winger is as disingenous as calling Dion a 50 point defenseman.

Yeah it happened. Once. He also had a 50 point season and a 38 point season.

Hall is not elite. He's a star, but not a superstar. He's the Ryan Smyth or Mats Naslund, to Jarome Iginla. Close. But not quite.

It's moot now, but if the Oilers never got McDavid, I would be very comfortable in saying Hall would never reach 80 points again. I might even take a bet for 70 points.

And yeah, he's been injured. But also, he's always injured. You can't give him a pass cause he plays in spurts. A few seasons, ok. But so far, it's a regular thing.

Hall is not elite. He's very very good. He's not elite.

[calgaryblood]

Hall has also had the benefit of playing on a team with absolutely no system and zero pressure after November his entire career.

I would take Bennet, Gaudreau and Monahan over Hall in a heart beat.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Calling him an 80 point winger is as disingenous as calling Dion a 50 point defenseman.

Yeah it happened. Once. He also had a 50 point season and a 38 point season.

Hall is not elite. He's a star, but not a superstar. He's the Ryan Smyth or Mats Naslund, to Jarome Iginla. Close. But not quite.

It's moot now, but if the Oilers never got McDavid, I would be very comfortable in saying Hall would never reach 80 points again. I might even take a bet for 70 points.

And yeah, he's been injured. But also, he's always injured. You can't give him a pass cause he plays in spurts. A few seasons, ok. But so far, it's a regular thing.

Hall is not elite. He's very very good. He's not elite.

He's one season removed from getting 80 points, and in the year before that he was on pace for 90 (lockout shortened year) and he's only 23 years old. It's not like his huge point totals were 5 years ago.

[FBI]

It's ok to just admit you kinda like the oilers.
You used the word potential, that's all we ever hear.

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Alright, I retract my objective view and will join the Circle Jerk.
The Flames are amazing and the Oilers suck.

PS. One year ago the Flames had the worst Forwards in Canada, and now we're the best? Come on already...

The Flames have 3 legit top six forwards as of today. If you take McDavid, Hall, Eberle, and RNH to any other team, they would still be top 6 players. So to say that their top six is thin doesn't make sense.

Pouliot, Draisaitl, Yak have every bit the same potential as Frolik, Bennett, and Backlund.

What sets Calgary's team apart is the offense from our D and how that relates to our Forwards. Solid puck moving D drives the Forwards.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by codynw

He's one season removed from getting 80 points, and in the year before that he was on pace for 90 (lockout shortened year) and he's only 23 years old. It's not like his huge point totals were 5 years ago.

Exactly. I would have taken his bet in a second. Hall is a good player. Obviously since he's an Oiler people try to downplay him any way they can.

[theslymonkey]

The sign of critical thinking is to carefully evaluate both sides, not just standing on your soap box screaming "I am right!!!"

I'm sorry to offer a critical look at the competition. The inability to recognize talent on a team that we hate is short sighted. Continue patting each other on the back while wearing your rose coloured glasses.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Swap top 6 forward groups between Edmonton and Calgary, I'd have to seriously consider it.

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Perron - McDavid - Yak

JH - Money - Hudler
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik

Edmonton's lineup with McJesus is sexier on paper but the Flames top isn't far behind.

This was exactly my initial point. I never said the Oilers are vastly better. But to say they're grading at a C while the Flames are a B is not right.

The Flames are obviously a better team. But the one thing the oilers do have is scoring talent. They may not be complete players, but they are a very potent offensive force that MAY soon be realized.

[ScorchyScorch]

Hudler > Hall > Gaudreau > Monahan > Eberle > RNH > Frolik > Backlund > Yak

That's how I'd rank them in terms of offensive impact. However our bottom two guys are the most well rounded of all the players in terms of 2-way play. So they chip in other ways, whereas the Edmonton kids don't have as much to offer in that regard.

The rookies Bennett and McDavid I don't think are that far apart. But they don't get evaluated with the rest because they haven't shown what they are at the NHL level yet.

As for teams going into 15-16

Montreal (giving the edge because of elite goaltending)
Calgary (best D-corps on the list goes a long way)
Ottawa (as long as they continue their trend from late last season)
Winnipeg (not enough top end to be higher, but a lot of solid, big young players)
Vancouver (core aging and bound to fall, not enough young talent to replace it)
Toronto (trades this summer could help the team as a whole be more well rounded than top-heavy)
Edmonton (putrid D-corps and team defence. They can have 12 McDavids up front, still won't help them until that's addressed)

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Okay lets just take this one point at a time, objectively:Objectively? Hardly but OK

Old boys club: yep, both lowe and Mactavish are still within the organization, so glad they have finally put that to rest...Chirelli built a pretty darn good team in Boston

Coach: wait and see on how he does but you are casually ignoring the fact that he got let go by SJ for a reason (not winning). Sharks seem to win a lot over the last decade

Hall: Scores goals, injury prone, worst hockey sense I've ever watched out of an "elite LW" Hall is Elite, I'm sorry you can't see that. Two Ppg seasons before he's 23...

McGeneration: Past Generational talents: Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Mackinnon list goes on. He likely will be good, but I honestly have no clue what Generational means anymore. Those are all damn good players. Able to carry their team all by themself

Eberle: Still living off his World Jr. success and his epic dangle against ian white. Terrible defensively, doesn't work very hard for a soft player, expects his "soft mitts" and "sick celeys" to make noise for him. He is a 60 point player check his stats. I don't like him, but he scores like a first line player.

RNH: Strong skater, skilled hockey player, competes hard on both sides of the puck. Too soft a game to ever be a true #1 in the tough, heavy western conference.There are a lot of teams that would give their left nut for him to crater their top line.

Yak: worst +/- 2 years running (i believe). nuff said. Nose for the net, bust potential, but he can score for a second line winger for sure

Pouliot: Career stats padded due to playing with Stamkos. Bottom six winger, he is really just a bigger bodied Mason Raymond. He's better than Raymond , but he's decent enough to play second line. But he's not hot garbage.

Daisaitl: Lets see how he recovers from being thrown into the lions den last season. You obviously didn't watch the memorial cup.

Give it a rest bud, nobody is fearful of the Oilers forwards, until the oilers forwards decide to do something about it.

I don't like the Oilers, but if your take off the Flames glasses you'd see that their top six looks very good. They have a lot of warts, but they will be able to score goals.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

Hudler > Hall > Gaudreau > Monahan > Eberle > RNH > Frolik > Backlund > Yak

That's how I'd rank them in terms of offensive impact. However our bottom two guys are the most well rounded of all the players in terms of 2-way play. So they chip in other ways, whereas the Edmonton kids don't have as much to offer in that regard.

The rookies Bennett and McDavid I don't think are that far apart. But they don't get evaluated with the rest because they haven't shown what they are at the NHL level yet.

As for teams going into 15-16

Montreal (giving the edge because of elite goaltending)
Calgary (best D-corps on the list goes a long way)
Ottawa (as long as they continue their trend from late last season)
Winnipeg (not enough top end to be higher, but a lot of solid, big young players)
Vancouver (core aging and bound to fall, not enough young talent to replace it)
Toronto (trades this summer could help the team as a whole be more well rounded than top-heavy)
Edmonton (putrid D-corps and team defence. They can have 12 McDavids up front, still won't help them until that's addressed)

Who cares about just offensive impact.
Nugent-Hopkins over Hall and Eberle easily for me.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

The Flames are obviously a better team. But the one thing the oilers do have is scoring talent. They may not be complete players, but they are a very potent offensive force that MAY soon be realized.

But that's a pretty big part of the game. You can't just dismiss bad defensive play by saying they're good offensive players so the bad defense doesn't matter. It does. If Hall, Eberle and Yak were better two-way players the Oilers would be a much better team. They're letting their team down in their own zone, which is why you can't give their forward group a high grade.

[TjRhythmic]

Like it or not, defense is a BIG part of pro sports. The Oilers, until their forward group shows some sort of commitment to it, should be rated lower then Calgary's just because they have a top 6 that commits to 2 way play. They work harder in the defensive zone then they do in the offensive zone and that is the way it should be. Work your ass off to get the puck back and once you get it back, go have some fun with it.

[Justin]

1. Montreal - Carey Price is the only reason they get the nod over Calgary.
2. Calgary
3. Winnipeg
4. Ottawa
5. Edmonton
6. Vancouver
7. Toronto

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Calling him an 80 point winger is as disingenous as calling Dion a 50 point defenseman.

Yeah it happened. Once. He also had a 50 point season and a 38 point season.

Hall is not elite. He's a star, but not a superstar. He's the Ryan Smyth or Mats Naslund, to Jarome Iginla. Close. But not quite.

It's moot now, but if the Oilers never got McDavid, I would be very comfortable in saying Hall would never reach 80 points again. I might even take a bet for 70 points.

And yeah, he's been injured. But also, he's always injured. You can't give him a pass cause he plays in spurts. A few seasons, ok. But so far, it's a regular thing.

Hall is not elite. He's very very good. He's not elite.

Originally Posted by codynw

An 80 point winger isn't "elite"?

Sure he's not gonna win a Selke, but neither are Ovechkin, Kessel or Kane. Hall is an elite scoring winger (assuming he bounces back, cause he had a real bad year last year).

Dany Heatley.

[Red Slinger]

Montreal-
Currently have the most valuable player in the league in Price. Not just in name but he is the most valuable player: he can win them any game any night. Subban is a great player also. They play well as a team but I'm not sold on their top 6 forwards. Even so, I still think they are the top Canadian team at the moment.

Winnipeg-
Really deep roster both at forward an defense. Goaltending is a question mark and their top 6 forwards aren't quite as good as advertised IMO. They are two players away from being a scary team. Unfortunately for them those players are a top forward and starting goaltender.

Calgary-
Still a young team with organizational depth similar to Winnipeg. Defense looks excellent on paper. Forwards are good but still young. The team needs to show that last season (in which they were supposed to contend for McDavid) wasn't a fluke. I don't think they're as good as they showed last season, nor as bad as some of the naysayers are speculating they'll be. Goaltending is still an area of weakness.

Ottawa-
Odd team, as usual. They have a few really nice players that seem to add up to more than the sum of their parts. Not sure about goaltending. This is a team that I could see surprising a lot of people and having an excellent season or surprising a lot of people and crashing badly.

Edmonton-
Improved their team in almost every category, at least on paper. But when you are the running joke of the league there's a lot of improvement to be done and it doesn't happen overnight. The forwards have a lot of potential but their careers have stagnated so far due to inept coaching and team management. Is one year enough to wash away the stink and terrible habits? Unlikely. Defense is atrocious. Goaltending is a question mark. They will probably finish somewhere around 11th or 12th in the West.

Vancouver-
The forward ranks are thinner than they've been in a long time. Same with the defense. There aren't a tonne of nice prospects ready to take the next step either. This team, as usual, will go as far as the Sedins will carry them. They are looking a little older and slower, and the relief depth is as shallow as it's been for years. Goaltending is inconsistent at best. They can still be a tough team on any given night because of the Sedins but it's tough to ask two aging players to carry the whole team every night.

Toronto-
They have about 3 top 6 forwards and none would likely be considered top 3. They have 2 top 4 defensemen and none, at this stage would be considered top pair. Overall depth is atrocious. If they had Price in goal to bail them out on a nightly basis they'd have a chance to not be a bottom 5 team. The goaltending they do have is inconsistent. Babcock is obviously a good coach but from an outsiders perspective that lockeroom is toxic, and as we saw with Hartley in Calgary, it takes time to change culture. They got rid of one of the problem children in Kessel but that resulted in a real drop in talent level. Plus, they still have other room issues like Kadri and their captain! They have a good chance at a Matthews draft party.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Voted Montreal as the top Canadian Team, simply because they feast in the East.

Calgary has Kings, Sharks and Ducks to contend with in their own division, plus the Central which is by far the toughest division. Can't put Winnipeg in there either, because they are in the Central.

Now, which team is better? I would say Calgary is better than Montreal, and Calgary and Winnipeg are in a pretty close spot relative to one another. Calgary by a hair as the best Canadian Team, but Montreal will get the most points.

Edit:

Ranking based on Points
Montreal
Calgary
Ottawa
Winnipeg
Vancouver

Edmonton
Toronto

Ranking Based on actual team strength:
Calgary
Winnipeg

Montreal
Ottawa

Vancouver

Edmonton
Toronto