Drivers charged $20 'toll' after deadly crash forces detour through First Nation - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

rubecube · 08-26-2015, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Edit: waiting for the slow transition from sarcastic comments to blatant racism, don't let me down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by polak

They also tell the trades guys working on these houses to go in their cars and lock the doors if they see the reserve residents.

Getting closer.

polak · 08-26-2015, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

Getting closer.

It's not racism. It's cause they routinely have thefts.

I'm just saying, it's nothing like your average small town detour.

rubecube · 08-26-2015, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polak

It's not racism. It's cause they routinely have thefts.

I'm just saying, it's nothing like your average small town detour.

I think I misread what you were saying. All I could picture was sad tradesmen sitting in their trucks, with the doors locked, waiting for the locals to go back inside.

peter12 · 08-26-2015, 10:17 AM

I have spent lots of time on reserves across Western Canada. As someone who knows a lot of aboriginal people, and the social conditions, and the sense of dark humour prevalent on most reserves, I think this story is pretty funny.

polak · 08-26-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think I misread what you were saying. All I could picture was sad tradesmen sitting in their trucks, with the doors locked, waiting for the locals to go back inside.

Yeah I see where you could get that. Edited my post.

Fire of the Phoenix · 08-26-2015, 10:26 AM

I'm sure some of you PC posters would feel differently if you were the ones trying to detour though a reserve road to avoid hours of delays and some goof was asking you to pay $20 for the privilege. Not everything needs to be a racial/legal issue, I'm talking about the decent thing to do as a human being. What would have been the consequences for letting them drive though? Just face it, they were being petty for the sake of it.

blankall · 08-26-2015, 10:33 AM

I don't really see the big deal here.

These people took a short cut through someone's private property and then complained about the fee. It's also not "just a road". By saying that your looking to invalidate the reserve and treaty system. Canada signed a treaty (in exchange for an end to military hostilities) with that reserve. We should respect it.

These people weren't involved in the medical emergency themselves. They just didn't want to wait in line with everyone else while their own highway was backed up.

Roast Beef · 08-26-2015, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I'm sure some of you PC posters would feel differently if you were the ones trying to detour though a reserve road to avoid hours of delays and some goof was asking you to pay $20 for the privilege. Not everything needs to be a racial/legal issue, I'm talking about the decent thing to do as a human being. What would have been the consequences for letting them drive though? Just face it, they were being petty for the sake of it.

The consequence of letting them drive through would have been no revenue. I applaud these guys for their quick thinking. They got a nice payday for very little work. Good on em.

Fire of the Phoenix · 08-26-2015, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roast Beef

The consequence of letting them drive through would have been no revenue. I applaud these guys for their quick thinking. They got a nice payday for very little work. Good on em.

$20... I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not here. It so obviously wasn't about the money, they just felt like being dick heads.

rubecube · 08-26-2015, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I'm sure some of you PC posters would feel differently if you were the ones trying to detour though a reserve road to avoid hours of delays and some goof was asking you to pay $20 for the privilege. Not everything needs to be a racial/legal issue, I'm talking about the decent thing to do as a human being. What would have been the consequences for letting them drive though? Just face it, they were being petty for the sake of it.

I'm not sure anyone brought up anything racial or legal about it. You want to use roads on private property in order to shave some time off your commute, you pay a premium. Seems fair to me. The consequences of letting them through would have been setting a precedent for anytime there were delays along the highway, near that road.

Roast Beef · 08-26-2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

$20... I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not here. It so obviously wasn't about the money, they just felt like being dick heads.

I am serious, it was 20 bucks per car so they probably made a few hundred bucks in total. Not a bad haul. As for me personally, if I were trying to cut through and they wanted 20 from me I would gladly pay it. The time and frustration saved is worth far more than 20 lousy dollars. Hell, I may have even thrown a few extra bucks their way just for the humor I would have gotten out of the situation.

northcrunk · 08-26-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

So this was 2 random guys extorting $20 from everyone? What would stop another guy from extorting another $20 a block or mile down the road? Then another $20 further down, etc?

You can't turn around without being charged again.

I'm glad I don't carry cash.

How is this not extortion? Absolutly disgusting. How about we set up our own Canadian road block for anyone leaving or coming back to the reserve?

millhouse11 · 08-26-2015, 10:53 AM

Meh it's $20. My truck would burn close to that in gas idling for 3 hours. I'd gladly pay the toll.

rubecube · 08-26-2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northcrunk

How is this not extortion? Absolutly disgusting. How about we set up our own Canadian road block for anyone leaving or coming back to the reserve?

Do you actually understand what extortion is? The drivers had two choices, take the official detour that was offered, or pay and take the private, faster route. It's not extortion, it's a premium service.

Resolute 14 · 08-26-2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not sure anyone brought up anything racial or legal about it. You want to use roads on private property in order to shave some time off your commute, you pay a premium. Seems fair to me. The consequences of letting them through would have been setting a precedent for anytime there were delays along the highway, near that road.

If the band - as the organization that controls the road - wanted to set up a toll there that was plainly marked well before you got to it, that's fine.

What these guys did is no different than if you tried to set up a toll booth on the entrance to your cul de sac and forced your neighbours to pay to get in. The fact that they are reserve members doesn't confer the right to unilaterally impose tolls. Call the RCMP if you have a problem with tresspassers.

northcrunk · 08-26-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If the band - as the organization that controls the road - wanted to set up a toll there that was plainly marked well before you got to it, that's fine.

What these guys did is no different than if you tried to set up a toll booth on the entrance to your cul de sac and forced your neighbours to pay to get in. The fact that they are reserve members doesn't confer the right to unilaterally impose tolls. Call the RCMP if you have a problem with tresspassers.

This. It was a complete dick move by a couple goof balls who wanted to extort money from motorists who only went their way due to a fatal accident. This kind of crap just makes me angry.

Minnie · 08-26-2015, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

I don't really see the big deal here.

These people took a short cut through someone's private property and then complained about the fee. .

They never actually got onto the road. There's a cattle guard at the point it enters reserve land and that's where they were stopped.

I talked to a couple different people out that direction. One said he was a lawyer and that according to some section of the treaty, they can't legally impede progress. I am not familiar with any of it. Just found it interesting.

The band didn't 'approve' of the actions. Interestingly, Cochrane's mayor is also complaining about the increased traffic because of the paving and the sign saying to cut through Cochrane/use the 1A/22 exchange.

Fighting Banana Slug · 08-26-2015, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

Do you actually understand what extortion is? The drivers had two choices, take the official detour that was offered, or pay and take the private, faster route. It's not extortion, it's a premium service.

The problem with this is that it is a premium service that these two had no right to offer. What if the residents down the road either asked for more money, or refused passage as they did not consent to the trespass? Extortion might be hyperbole, but vigilantism (spelling?) I think sums it up. They may have thought they had a moral, justified standing to charge, but I don't see any evidence that they had any actual authority.

Weitz · 08-26-2015, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northcrunk

How is this not extortion? Absolutly disgusting. How about we set up our own Canadian road block for anyone leaving or coming back to the reserve?

If that was my property and my private road you think I am going to let anyone take it as a shortcut?

Not a damn chance. Unless they are paying me.

fundmark19 · 08-26-2015, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubecube

Do you actually understand what extortion is? The drivers had two choices, take the official detour that was offered, or pay and take the private, faster route. It's not extortion, it's a premium service.

My issue is that they aren't the sole owners of that private road. This was 2 guys making a quick buck. I bet these guys had no intention of turning the money earned from these blockades and giving it to the band to be distributed amongst all members.

They should really just set up tolls on roads that cut through their land and collect revenue. They would probably make some decent coin on some of the roads.