[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I have a somewhat irrational love for the dome and will be sad when it's gone but if I'm the ownership group I would want an updated building to allow for better revenue streams. It's already been renovated multiple times but there's no amount of refurbishing that will drag the dome into modernity. Since the stampeders are somewhat needing of a new building as well it makes sense to try and tackle both issues from an economies of scale perspective.

I thought the roll out yesterday was a massive disappointment, was never a KK fan from interactions I've had with him in the past and this pretty much seals my distaste for him.

Then pay for it yourself.

That logic is basically this. I want to be able to make more money but I don't want to spend the capital, so you do it.

The more I think about this, the angrier I'm getting.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Then pay for it yourself.

That logic is basically this. I want to be able to make more money but I don't want to spend the capital, so you do it.

The more I think about this, the angrier I'm getting.

Welcome to big business.

Was this honestly a surprise to you?

[hockey.modern]

What do you guys think about this?



Reroute Bow Trail Eastbound going off onto 10 Ave SW, which would need to be upgraded to accommodate the traffic.

Bow Trail Westbound goes all the way around the complex.

Fieldhouse is in the middle with direct connection for Sunalta LRT.

The Stadium located where Renfrew Chrysler is currently, still leaving the pump-house theater untouched.

In front of the fieldhouse is residential,mixed with commercial space with views of the riverfront. much like a boardwalk.

More commercial, residential take up the other parts.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Welcome to big business.

Was this honestly a surprise to you?

Big business? Do you mean big sports and entertainment business?


That presentation was a surprise to me. Their plan for the west village is a joke. The message was 'well, we'll put this project there and then the west village will revitalize itself''

How can anyone say that this is transformative when their plan doesn't include the realignment of bow trail and orphans the river.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

It depends on what the $325 mil refurbishment entails. How long does it extend the operational life of the Saddledome as an NHL arena and events center?

It may seem attractive from a $ perspective, but until you know the full details it is impossible to compare.

I hear what you're saying. On further reflection though I have to ask myself how much of an improved rink I'm interested in paying for considering I'll maybe spend 10 evenings there a year. Viewed from a personal usage perspective, I think I would be fine with a still-crappy but not as crappy venue. Like flying economy on a three hour flight. Sucks, but gets you there and the extra expense just doesn't seem justified.

[bax]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Then pay for it yourself.

That logic is basically this. I want to be able to make more money but I don't want to spend the capital, so you do it.

The more I think about this, the angrier I'm getting.

As a fan and a tax payer I can't wait until this thing gets built. Going from one of the worst buildings in the league to presumably one of the best will be a huge game changer as far as game day experience goes.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

What do you guys think about this?



Reroute Bow Trail Eastbound going off onto 10 Ave SW, which would need to be upgraded to accommodate the traffic.

Bow Trail Westbound goes all the way around the complex.

Fieldhouse is in the middle with direct connection for Sunalta LRT.

The Stadium located where Renfrew Chrysler is currently, still leaving the pump-house theater untouched.

In front of the fieldhouse is residential,mixed with commercial space with views of the riverfront. much like a boardwalk.

More commercial, residential take up the other parts.

How much more in terms of $100s of million of dollars is that going to cost?

You are re-aligning roads and building 3 separate buildings were 1 building was before.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

What do you guys think about this?



Reroute Bow Trail Eastbound going off onto 10 Ave SW, which would need to be upgraded to accommodate the traffic.

Bow Trail Westbound goes all the way around the complex.

Fieldhouse is in the middle with direct connection for Sunalta LRT.

The Stadium located where Renfrew Chrysler is currently, still leaving the pump-house theater untouched.

In front of the fieldhouse is residential,mixed with commercial space with views of the riverfront. much like a boardwalk.

More commercial, residential take up the other parts.

Fieldhouse and Stadium 2 separate entities = flames have to build the stadium (which I believe they were trying to avoid)

No shared enterance for the arena/fieldhouse/stadium = we're back to 'if you build them separately it'd be 330mill more'


PERSONALLY, I think you're on the right track. The commercial and residential stuff SHOULD be next to the river on the board walk. No point having an arena look out over the river.

Not sure about the road exchanges though. And why the city would build their field house in this location if it was separate from the stadium...

[Frequitude]

What if the riverfront side of the facility was where all the restaurants and walk up entrance were located? Almost as if it were a really nice boardwalk.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

What if the riverfront side of the facility was where all the restaurants and walk up entrance were located? Almost as if it were a really nice boardwalk.

Great. Where does Bow Trail go? It's a freeway.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

I hear what you're saying. On further reflection though I have to ask myself how much of an improved rink I'm interested in paying for considering I'll maybe spend 10 evenings there a year. Viewed from a personal usage perspective, I think I would be fine with a still-crappy but not as crappy venue. Like flying economy on a three hour flight. Sucks, but gets you there and the extra expense just doesn't seem justified.

The thing is this isn't just about you, it's about the city as a whole.

I won't ever use the fancy library, I won't ever use the field house but I know it's good for the city.

In the end building a new facility makes more sense than renovating the old one. The biggest question is how to come to a point that benefits the Flames and the city a similar amount.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by dino7c

its a very safe bet, are you suggesting people will stop going to concerts and sporting events in large numbers?

If it's such a safe bet, why don't the Flames front that money themselves?

A bad economy, a bad few years for the Flames, anything can happen. Are you suggesting sports teams automatically draw fans and profit?

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Then pay for it yourself.

That logic is basically this. I want to be able to make more money but I don't want to spend the capital, so you do it.

The more I think about this, the angrier I'm getting.

If you've been watching what's been happening around North America I think you and everyone else on the "no tax payer money" train is going to be severely upset. Every stadium/arena built in the last 10 years has had public money behind it, even for the Cowboys and Yankees. The problem is once you have an outdated building you're at the bottom percentile for potential earnings relative to your peers. If the home city doesn't want to pay for it there is always another municipality that doesn't have a team that will build you one. It's happening right now with Kansas City for the NBA and LA for the NFL. Owners are going to try and get the best deal for them, I'm sure you would too if you owned a team.

I'm not saying I support/agree with this I'm just saying how it is.

This is either going to end with the city coughing up some money or the Flames relocating.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

What if the riverfront side of the facility was where all the restaurants and walk up entrance were located? Almost as if it were a really nice boardwalk.

While we're at it, what if winter never existed?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Big business? Do you mean big sports and entertainment business?


That presentation was a surprise to me. Their plan for the west village is a joke. The message was 'well, we'll put this project there and then the west village will revitalize itself''

How can anyone say that this is transformative when their plan doesn't include the realignment of bow trail and orphans the river.

The presentation was fairly underwhelming to say the least but I think at this point it was obvious it was all a big smoke and mirrors event, the first public relations salvo in what will be a long battle. King King and the Flames group had sympathetic council members on their side, helping to deflect even the mayor's prepared statement during Q&A.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Flames know and fully realize that the parking and Bow Trail issues need to be address but think this might help push that issue at City Hall.

We're just getting started.

[tvp2003]

For all the complaining about the fieldhouse and the arena, and how the City is getting nothing out of the deal, I believe its the residential and commercial development (the stuff in yellow) that is the big carrot for the City. All of that land (which looks to be the same size footprint as the fieldhouse/arena) is currently contaminated and underutilized. If there is enough incentive and impetus to get that cleaned up for redevelopment, the City can surely sell that land for a pretty hefty sum. The property taxes (subject to the CRL) would follow.

I also note that the land in yellow is right on the water, as Bow Trail cuts underneath. While there will need to be underpasses or bridges to get from there to the fieldhouse/arena (based on the current alignment), its a small price to pay for what could be a really nice chunk of land after it is remediated.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Great. Where does Bow Trail go? It's a freeway.

Good call. I had my bearing wrong.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The presentation was fairly underwhelming to say the least but I think at this point it was obvious it was all a big smoke and mirrors event, the first public relations salvo in what will be a long battle. King King and the Flames group had sympathetic council members on their side, helping to deflect even the mayor's prepared statement during Q&A.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Flames know and fully realize that the parking and Bow Trail issues need to be address but think this might help push that issue at City Hall.

We're just getting started.

I'm just so disappointed. I really would like this to happen, it is 2km from my house and 2km from office (right in the middle) and would be great for my family and I to use in so many different ways. I was equally excited for not only the new venues, but the possibilities for West Village, which is just so ugly and I didn't get it.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

If you've been watching what's been happening around North America I think you and everyone else on the "no tax payer money" train is going to be severely upset. Every stadium/arena built in the last 10 years has had public money behind it, even for the Cowboys and Yankees. The problem is once you have an outdated building you're at the bottom percentile for potential earnings relative to your peers. If the home city doesn't want to pay for it there is always another municipality that doesn't have a team that will build you one. It's happening right now with Kansas City for the NBA and LA for the NFL. Owners are going to try and get the best deal for them, I'm sure you would too if you owned a team.

I'm not saying I support/agree with this I'm just saying how it is.

This is either going to end with the city coughing up some money or the Flames relocating.

Yep. There shouldn't be tax dollars involved, but it's a fact of life.

The gun to the head is 'fine we'll relocate'. We love hockey and our team, so we all dance around and talk about the benefit to the city etc. to make ourselves feel better about where we're spending our tax dollars and how it doesn't really make sense, but the alternative is too scary.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern View Post
What do you guys think about this?

I think you are on the right track and agree with moving the stadium to the fringe. The stadium seems to isolate the western half and cuts it off from transit. Why would anyone want to live there?

Also, I would re-route Bow trail according to the original ARP, push it away from the river.

At the end of the day, the location of the stadium is not great for inducing a new neighbourhood. It's taking away from the benefits of living over there by putting the stadium next to the river and not re-routing bow trail. These need to be done. I would much rather see it built as far away from the river as possible in the WV allowing for development of Res/Com by the water, or pushing it over to the far west leading to better integration with the Core.