[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Tacopuck]

Another thing for the city to consider this development will increase the property values of everyone in Sunalta and the surrounding communities - People get higher value for their homes - City gets to tax more based on higher property values.

[nik-]

Only just under half a billion dollars in public money?!

####, sign me up.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

I think everyone stating that its too much "public" funds is over-simplifying the structure.

- $200M From Flames - Private Money
- $250M From Ticket Tax - Public Money - But money from people who are actually using the facility - Dont like it? Dont goto games.
- $240M From CRL - This is money from businesses and developments that will build in the area that directly benefit from the arena being there. If there was no arena that area would have a tough time developing into the same level of density as their are proposing. Also it is only a temporary tax, and with that kind of density will add a nice tax base adder for the city.

this is public money. that money is supposed to be re-couped from the businesses IF they are built. A more apt description from CTF http://www.taxpayer.com/commentaries...leight-of-hand which states:

CRL's are also used to upgrade areas, like East Village to build the community. If you want to revitalize West Village, that money is better spent on the infrastructure.

- $200M From the City - This is the only direct funding from the city wide tax base but considering it was already earmarked for the field house it benefits the whole city funding has not been allocated, for a reason

I get the anti public funding sentiment however people need to look into the details of things a little more.

...

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

I'm fortunate enough to come from a wealthy family. I go to dozens of Saddledome events every year. I just don't think it fair to make other people subsidize my entertainment.

career bartenders and servers everywhere thank your family for subsidizing their healthcare

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Revenue =/= profit

You were right, Forbes article only mentioned revenue.

Turns out it's impossible to find info on profits made by privately owned arenas.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

I think everyone stating that its too much "public" funds is over-simplifying the structure.

- $200M From Flames - Private Money
- $250M From Ticket Tax - Public Money - But money from people who are actually using the facility - Dont like it? Dont goto games.
- $240M From CRL - This is money from businesses and developments that will build in the area that directly benefit from the arena being there. If there was no arena that area would have a tough time developing into the same level of density as their are proposing. Also it is only a temporary tax, and with that kind of density will add a nice tax base adder for the city.
- $200M From the City - This is the only direct funding from the city wide tax base but considering it was already earmarked for the field house it benefits the whole city

I get the anti public funding sentiment however people need to look into the details of things a little more.

Agree except I'd call the ticket tax private, it is related to private events. The "owners" of the facility would front the money then collect it over time on the ticket tax.

Lots of room for detail here as well. There are numerous revenue streams that will result (for example, naming rights, service provider rights, that will generate millions annually. Who gets this?)

[Regorium]

nm

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

career bartenders and servers everywhere thank your family for subsidizing their healthcare

Yes, lets equate healthcare with private enterprise.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I hope the public who backlashes at the pricetag are happy to see Canada's 3rd or 4th biggest city be consistently stepped over for major events, including World Cups, Olympics, Concerts and other major events.

I am perfectly fine with this happening.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle18924852/

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Geez guys, don't you think we all essentially paid for most of the Saddledome and McMahon in one way or another?

CS&E is putting up $450 million. Are you surprised that $250M they're going to reclaim by a ticket tax? The other $200M, the owners are obviously going to want a return on through general profits which we all pay for in tickets, concessions, merchandise, concert tickets, Grey Cup profits, etc etc.

The $200M from the City for the field house & communty rink is possibly fair, but it's the $240M CRL that I'd have the most issue with. This complex isn't giving anything to the West Village community that suggests they deserve to take $240M out of that fund. I'm not sure what the East Village CRL amount was for all of the public infrastructure but I doubt that area would have been as successful with $240M chopped off the top.

There better be operating funds going back to the City, such as the teams paying rent.

The way it's worded makes me assume that the City will be picking up the 250M loan, and will be collecting the ticket tax over a period of time.

If CS&E is picking up the 250M and collecting the ticket tax, then I think the overall plan is quite reasonable.

Also here's the relevant section of the ticket surcharge from the edmonton deal, which I assume will be similar:

Ticket Surcharge
The ticket surcharge will be levied by the City, with the rate set by the Edmonton Arena Corporation (EAC).
The amount collected must fund the principal and interest payments for repayment of $125-million over a 35-year term, plus a $1.5-million annual contribution to the City to create a fund for ongoing major capital expenditures.
Capital contributions will be reviewed after 15 years.
Ticket surcharge collected in excess of what is required to fund the $125-million in initial capital costs and the $1.5-million per annum for ongoing capital maintenance will be retained by the EAC.
A ticket surcharge will be levied on admissions at Rexall Place at the same rate as the ticket surcharge charged on non-hockey events at Rogers Place, to a maximum of 7%. The proceeds of this surcharge will go to the City.

[Swayze11]

Guys, I have the 1% public art thing figured out. Thank me later.

[Bill Bumface]

Indoor stadium with a fixed roof is a huge miss for me. I'll likely never bother with a stamps game again, and they'll kill the "nice summer evening" crowds for soccer. I now think fat chance of MLS.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

Another thing for the city to consider this development will increase the property values of everyone in Sunalta and the surrounding communities - People get higher value for their homes - City gets to tax more based on higher property values.

Sunalta has a lot of affordable housing and an average income of $32,000. So if by help you mean displace less fortunate people you may be onto something. I live in Sunalta.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by mesaywee

Paying an extra 10-20 bucks on a ticket to enjoy a new arena makes tons of sense. If you can't afford $50 dollars for a ticket to a flames game (I'm a student, I can't) You probably can't afford $40 to go to a flames game. Viewing a hockey game isn't a right.

What they're building will also be usable by the public. This city would benefit from a multi-sports complex.

It's also making a decrepit bus depot and a car dealership on polluted land into a world class facility and entertainment district.

Depends on the ticket. Don't know what Hitmen tickets are, but adding $10 to what's intended as a discount entertainment option (or, say, something like family huddle tickets for Stampeders games), is increasing the price substantially. Jumping from, say, $80 to $120 to take a family to Stampeders games is pretty significant, if those are the cheapest options available. I'd rather see something that is based on a percentage of the ticket cost (like, say, 10% of ticket cost), so adding just a couple dollars to a discount entertainment option, but adding $10 or more once you get into $100 hockey tickets.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

You were right, Forbes article only mentioned revenue.

Turns out it's impossible to find info on profits made by privately owned arenas.

I'm always right. Always

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

One big issue that the current proposal does not seem to handle is parking.

Renderings don't show a lot of parking space.

Given that the Kirby Station is on the Free Fare zone, if I want to drive in to the game, I go to one of the many parkades or lots in the City downtown core (some offer $2 a night parking after 5:00 - a hell of a lot better than what the Stampede charges), walk to 7th Ave and train it to Kirby.

This "dispersed" parking would also help with the post game surge of traffic by distributing it throughout the downtown core, not just from a single big parking lot.

[Nehkara]

Fieldhouse $200 million
Closed fixed roof
FIFA size soccer field - can host International soccer
CFL size football field
Volleyball, basketball, racketball
Track and field
Running track around the field with retractable stands that extend over the running track for CFL/Soccer games

Event Centre
Concerts and events. Can host any event.
Home of Flames and Hitmen
Unique design
Upper/Lower bowl
Furthest seats from the ice MUCH closer than Saddledome

Site
West side of downtown on site of Greyhound bus station and car dealerships and SunAlta LRT station
Site heavily contaminated by creosote

Expect significant development around the project in the future.

Aiming for a world class facility... Something you'd normally see in New York, Paris.

Project will be at least 5 years, and that would be a blistering pace.

Saddledome oldest building in the league.

McMahon far too old but has served well. Also oldest building in the league.

Saddledome roof has less than half the weight capacity of modern buildings

Fieldhouse needs to happen. Almost all large, and some small, cities have them (Yellowknife)

West Village contamination needs to be cleaned up. CalgaryNEXT could be the catalyst for remediation.

CalgaryNEXT $890 million

Need all three levels of government to get together and cooperate to clean up site.

$200 million from City
$250 million ticket tax
$240 million community revitalization levy
$200 million from Flames/Stampeders owners

CITY OF CALGARY WILL OWN BUILDINGS AND LAND.

Community revitalization levy - a portion of the taxes on future developments in the area are put towards the project. Money that would not otherwise exist (development increases due to project).

Re-purposing Saddledome discussions. Possibility of turning it into trade space (like BMO centre)

Re-purposing McMahon - likely to be demolished and turned into greenspace in the near term.

CalgaryNEXT will complete and connect our city.

Arena will be same capacity as Saddledome.

$200 million from city is for Fieldhouse.

Remediation of the land will be City/Province/Federal funds. Hoping that with the potential for massive development, it will finally get the land cleaned up after 55+ years. A lot of research done by Flames organization on how to do Remediation.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Does anyone have one of these?

The Flames ownership group just released their main proposal to the world. It is their opportunity to spin the price tag, the funding, everything to look good. And they didn't. The conclusions that people are jumping to are probably correct/well-inferred.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

I think everyone stating that its too much "public" funds is over-simplifying the structure.

- $200M From Flames - Private Money
- $250M From Ticket Tax - Public Money - But money from people who are actually using the facility - Dont like it? Dont goto games.
- $240M From CRL - This is money from businesses and developments that will build in the area that directly benefit from the arena being there. If there was no arena that area would have a tough time developing into the same level of density as their are proposing. Also it is only a temporary tax, and with that kind of density will add a nice tax base adder for the city.
- $200M From the City - This is the only direct funding from the city wide tax base but considering it was already earmarked for the field house it benefits the whole city

I get the anti public funding sentiment however people need to look into the details of things a little more.

Exactly.

One of those details will be who fronts the dough when. If the flames built just an arena for $400 mil using 200m of their own money and 200m from a ticket levy that they paid the carrying cost on, it'd be a 100% private financed building. So whats the city really paying? Something I am sure.

Another will be whats the CRL without project? Is it more or less? (cause its not 0, that land is going to be developed with taxpayers fronting the money no matter what)

As it stands, taxpayers are on the hook for a CRL, a fieldhouse, and cleaning up that land no matter what the flames do. At a minimum. So is this going to equate to more? Probably. How much more? 10M? 100M? thats the important number IMO.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

One big issue that the current proposal does not seem to handle is parking.

Renderings don't show a lot of parking space.

Someone asked about this in the Q&A. They want as little parking as possible. LRT, Cabs, Like Madison Square Garden.