Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[#-3]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I am all for reducing greenhouse gases, renewable energy, and the whole bit. I feel everyone in a Western country should be educated enough to know that we only have one planet, and we should take care of it as best we can. It starts with the individual being environmentally responsible, and the attitude will permeate society.

However, I think it's extremely important to have perspective. I enjoy being environmentally responsible where I can, but the reality is, my effort is negligible. Furthermore, Canada's carbon footprint, or greenhouse gas emissions compared to the rest of the world, are tiny. Granted, Canada can be forgiven a little for carbon use since Canadians do need to keep themselves from freezing to death in the winter. So they get a little slack.

See chart:



Souce: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghg...ns/global.html

So before we go on a holy crusade to reduce our emissions, our friendly neighbors need to take a long hard look in the mirror. Global emissions are a global problem, and no one political party in Canada can make this change.

I wouldn't want to see us sacrifice jobs in the name of the environment, when in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't make a difference unless it's a global effort.

Now do that chart per capita.

Really the first thing we all need to do is stop saying my impact is negligible, and someone else has to be responsible first.

[puckedoff]

^ On a per capita basis I agree with CroFlames even more. Look how big the slice for China and India are, and they create a fraction of emission per capita compared to the West. As China and India begin to live more first world lifestyles, even a slight increase (in my view inevitable) will wipe out any progress Canada can make.

[JohnnyB]

You can view per capita co2 emissions here: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...1W?display=map

You can also see a lot of other relevant data on that page as well.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

^ On a per capita basis I agree with CroFlames even more. Look how big the slice for China and India are, and they create a fraction of emission per capita compared to the West. As China and India begin to live more first world lifestyles, even a slight increase (in my view inevitable) will wipe out any progress Canada can make.

"I live a lavish lifestyle that is sustainable only if I do it and everyone else lives a lower quality of life. My lifestyle would be utterly unsustainable were the rest of the world to do the same. Even a small fraction of the world leading a similar lifestyle to my own has already set us on a global path to environmental disaster. I believe that others in the world are aspiring to lead a lavish and unsustainable lifestyle like my own and them doing so is going to screw us all. As a result, I shouldn't bother making any sacrifices to my own lifestyle and should just enjoy the ride on our way to global disaster while it lasts."

What's the way out of this prisoner's dilemma?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by #-3

Now do that chart per capita.

Really the first thing we all need to do is stop saying my impact is negligible, and someone else has to be responsible first.

the 2 percent still doesnt change - wiped Canada off the map..nothing hardly changes

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

the 2 percent still does change - wiped Canada off the map..nothing hardly changes

Wipe Canada off the map and the earth can support 200 million more Chinese citizens with no increase in greenhouse gas emissions (in this crude exercise). That seems pretty significant.

[Slava]

Really interesting 'At Issue' tonight on the National. I quite like this panel, and this time they delve into the Duffy trial and the initial bit of the campaign.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCvoe...ature=youtu.be

[killer_carlson]

At Issue is outstanding.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

"I live a lavish lifestyle that is sustainable only if I do it and everyone else lives a lower quality of life. My lifestyle would be utterly unsustainable were the rest of the world to do the same. Even a small fraction of the world leading a similar lifestyle to my own has already set us on a global path to environmental disaster. I believe that others in the world are aspiring to lead a lavish and unsustainable lifestyle like my own and them doing so is going to screw us all. As a result, I shouldn't bother making any sacrifices to my own lifestyle and should just enjoy the ride on our way to global disaster while it lasts."

What's the way out of this prisoner's dilemma?

Or, "Even if the rest of the world moves a quarter of the way towards my lavish lifestyle we're doomed, and I'm not a big enough ####### to tell them they shouldn't". Its damned if we do damned if we don't, so I don't see the point of throwing our neighbours out of work for no reason.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Slava

Really interesting 'At Issue' tonight on the National. I quite like this panel, and this time they delve into the Duffy trial and the initial bit of the campaign.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCvoe...ature=youtu.be

they had one yesterday too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9jIB-Apoow

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I am all for reducing greenhouse gases, renewable energy, and the whole bit. I feel everyone in a Western country should be educated enough to know that we only have one planet, and we should take care of it as best we can. It starts with the individual being environmentally responsible, and the attitude will permeate society.

However, I think it's extremely important to have perspective. I enjoy being environmentally responsible where I can, but the reality is, my effort is negligible. Furthermore, Canada's carbon footprint, or greenhouse gas emissions compared to the rest of the world, are tiny. Granted, Canada can be forgiven a little for carbon use since Canadians do need to keep themselves from freezing to death in the winter. So they get a little slack.

See chart:



Souce: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghg...ns/global.html

So before we go on a holy crusade to reduce our emissions, our friendly neighbors need to take a long hard look in the mirror. Global emissions are a global problem, and no one political party in Canada can make this change.

I wouldn't want to see us sacrifice jobs in the name of the environment, when in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't make a difference unless it's a global effort.

One thing I always wondered about this chart is how the data is determined, is it measured in each country by an independent party like IPCC or is each country's own government taking the measurements and reporting it?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

the 2 percent still does change - wiped Canada off the map..nothing hardly changes

You've completely missed my point.

The Biggest thing we can do to address climate change, is get people to start believing what they do makes a difference. If nobody believes they can make a difference the result is pretty self explanatory.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

^ On a per capita basis I agree with CroFlames even more. Look how big the slice for China and India are, and they create a fraction of emission per capita compared to the West. As China and India begin to live more first world lifestyles, even a slight increase (in my view inevitable) will wipe out any progress Canada can make.

All the more reason for first world countries to pursue climate neutral technology.

That way citizens of China and India can skip the polluting stage and go straight into green technology.

Just like they skipped landlines and went straight to cell phones.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Slava

Really interesting 'At Issue' tonight on the National. I quite like this panel, and this time they delve into the Duffy trial and the initial bit of the campaign.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCvoe...ature=youtu.be

More people need to watch this just to see Harper's flip flop regarding not answering direct questions in times of scandal. [short version paraphrased: "if you're not answering simple questions, then it's because you're hiding something"]

[Frequitude]

I'd love to see a consumption based accounting of greenhouse gas emissions. e.g. penalize Canadians for the emissions from the entire supply chain and energy inputs to make our iPads, penalize the people who ultimately consume processed Alberta bitumen with the emissions created in Alberta by producing it, etc.

A quick google search reveals some academic studies on the topic but no simple charts.

[PantherExtreme]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...service=mobile

Canada does more than its fair share to prevent progress on this.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by PantherExtreme

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...service=mobile

Canada does more than its fair share to prevent progress on this.

Embarassing

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by #-3

Now do that chart per capita.

Really the first thing we all need to do is stop saying my impact is negligible, and someone else has to be responsible first.

I'm saying that our impact is understandable, not negligble. We are a gigantic country, which is intrinsically inefficient. We are a frigid climate, requiring an extreme amount of heating. Our main industries are dirty - manufacturing, oil and gas, mining and forestry. It is completely expected that our per capita emissions are higher.

On a personal level, I guarantee that I have a smaller footprint than most people. I live in a highrise, walk to work, and drive about 3000km a year. I care a lot personally and have adjusted my lifestyle to minimize my carbon. The oil and gas industry (and the other dirty industries), from what I've seen, also work extremely hard from both a regulatory and mandated from pmanagement to minimize emissions. We are intrinsically inefficient on the emissions front and I don't think we should have to sacrifice even more.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

More people need to watch this just to see Harper's flip flop regarding not answering direct questions in times of scandal. [short version paraphrased: "if you're not answering simple questions, then it's because you're hiding something"]

To be honest I have no idea how people can look at the whole Duffy trial and still vote for the CPC. Specifically when they voted against Paul Martin not all that long ago due to the sponsorship scandal and needing to clean house. To me there isn't a lot of difference here; the numbers are bigger perhaps, but the idea is the same and fraud is fraud.

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I'm saying that our impact is understandable, not negligble. We are a gigantic country, which is intrinsically inefficient. We are a frigid climate, requiring an extreme amount of heating. Our main industries are dirty - manufacturing, oil and gas, mining and forestry. It is completely expected that our per capita emissions are higher.

On a personal level, I guarantee that I have a smaller footprint than most people. I live in a highrise, walk to work, and drive about 3000km a year. I care a lot personally and have adjusted my lifestyle to minimize my carbon. The oil and gas industry (and the other dirty industries), from what I've seen, also work extremely hard from both a regulatory and mandated from pmanagement to minimize emissions. We are intrinsically inefficient on the emissions front and I don't think we should have to sacrifice even more.

Agreed. I would like to know what the targets are that the article was mentioning. It's easy to shame Harper on not endorsing it. But if the targets end up putting us at a large disadvantage to other countries due to our size, population, and industries, is it worthwhile? There needs to be better info on what the targets are and how this is going to affect us before we start just signing agreements to placate the rest of the G7.