Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I think Pepper addressed my thoughts on the industry and climate change.

As for the diversification argument I don't think people get it. Canada has resources, and development of them results in economic benefits. Not developing them does not lead to equal or even similar economic benefits moving to other sectors, it just simply leads to less economic activity in the country overall. So we can achieve 'diversification' but at a cost of lower economic development. Not necessarily a desirable outcome. The argument for the oilsands is that we're playing the hand we have economically to maximize Canada's benefit.

And in conjunction with this thought we have had a huge issue with not enough skilled workers. I'm not sure how trying to diversify things and develop the resources we have at the same time would positively affect that issue. Overall the whole "we should've diversified" argument seems like a lot of hindsight bias with some "I told you so" thrown in for good measure.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

And in conjunction with this thought we have had a huge issue with not enough skilled workers. I'm not sure how trying to diversify things and develop the resources we have at the same time would positively affect that issue. Overall the whole "we should've diversified" argument seems like a lot of hindsight bias with some "I told you so" thrown in for good measure.

Oil&Gas is a huge driver of a lot of other facets of the economy as well. The diversification crowd doesn't seem to understand that.

If people stopped buying iPhones (like they decided to get a life or something), then Silicon Valley wouldn't be nearly the powerhouse that it is.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Maccalus

I hate to nitpick, but Canada's electricity production has been mainly (over 80%) from low carbon sources for decades as well. It is other industries and consumers who drive it in Canada.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...ctor_in_Canada

Damn Canada those environmental laggards.

[burn_this_city]

Unemployment would have been 10% or more for the last decade if the Oilsands hadn't gone full bore. Manufacturing has been in a race to the bottom for more than 20 years.

[peter12]

And manufacturing will never recover. Capital has won that battle forever.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

And manufacturing will never recover. Capital has won that battle forever.

Dollar keeps going south and it just might recover.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Sigh...Harper doubles down on pot prohibition.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politi...n-crime-agenda

Right now even far right wing Republicans in America want to eliminate mandatory minimums because it is so burdensome on government budgets to house low level, non-violent offenders (nevermind that it often turns small timers into permanent criminals). So naturally the alleged fiscal conservatives want to take the fiscally irresponsible, highly wasteful approach. It's not even a popular thing, 2/3 people want reductions in pot penalties. But ideologues will be ideologues.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Dollar keeps going south and it just might recover.

Tech wins. The Americans have the tech, the Chinese have the labour.

[burn_this_city]

Hardly anyone will dump money into manufacturing to ride a potentially short lived drop in the dollar.

[peter12]

What the Tories understand, and clearly no one else, is how absolutely weak the Canadian economy is without oil&gas. I greatly dislike the Tories - greatly. They are a slimy, dishonourable bunch, but they are the least harmful to Alberta right now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Hardly anyone will dump money into manufacturing to ride a potentially short lived drop in the dollar.

Yeah, there are still many other cheaper options. China has been devaluating their currency like crazy as well (which IMO, was already criminally undervalued).

[peter12]

A smart government would be leveraging as many incentives as possible to ensure greater tech development in the O&G sector. That is the future. The days of blue collar work in this field are over, for the most part. A lot of it is going to be how you leverage, and manage new technologies in extraction. That goes for climate change as well. A moratorium at this stage in the Canadian economic cycle is not feasible.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

What the Tories understand, and clearly no one else, is how absolutely weak the Canadian economy is without oil&gas. I greatly dislike the Tories - greatly. They are a slimy, dishonourable bunch, but they are the least harmful to Alberta right now.

You have touched on my feelings during this election.

I feel like I have to vote for the least repugnant individual/party. Sadly, I don't see any of the 3 leaders (Greens are just a sideshow), as well Leaders.

To be honest I am really at a loss for who I will vote for. I wish there was an option to vote for A.N. Other.

I think I might just take a micro focus approach to this and vote for the candidate in my riding that I like the most. Sadly, I think this is not a good way to approach a national election.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by peter12

What the Tories understand, and clearly no one else, is how absolutely weak the Canadian economy is without oil&gas. I greatly dislike the Tories - greatly. They are a slimy, dishonourable bunch, but they are the least harmful to Alberta right now.

Based on what actual policy? They didn't lobby hard for Keystone, haven't been pushing hard for Energy East and as far as I can see haven't pressed for anything substantial for the energy industry really.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

Why would you expect anyone to answer such a loaded question directly?

Why can't people engage in a frank discussion without rigging the thing in favour of their pre-existing biases.

Come on.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

Based on what actual policy? They didn't lobby hard for Keystone, haven't been pushing hard for Energy East and as far as I can see haven't pressed for anything substantial for the energy industry really.

Well, at least they wouldn't kill it. Maybe you are right, and we should give the Liberals a chance. Honestly, I have just started paying attention to Canadian politics again after a long hiatus (I used to work for the CPC and got disenchanted), so I am open for a reasonable argument.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

Tech wins. The Americans have the tech, the Chinese have the labour.

You're forgetting President Trump will be instituting 200% tariffs on Mexico and China (and everywhere else he doesn't like). Manufacturing can recover then.

[FlamesAddiction]

IMO, the Liberals are just playing lip service to the left/environmentalist side of the oil sands debate. They know what a cash cow oil is for the Canadian economy and when push comes to shove, they'll keep the oil flowing.

The truth is, many countries in the world are leveraging their own oil by promoting the oil sands as an environmental nightmare and that is hurting Canada as an oil supplier. We need politicians that will advocate for environmentalism while still finding ways to keep the industry going. Certainly we are an innovative enough country that we can find a middle ground.

Both the Conservatives and NDP are too extreme with their opposite view points. The Liberals are probably the best party to play both sides of the fence on this and are historically more for big business than conservatives give them credit for.

[polak]

Tough on crime is pretty much enough for me to rule out voting for the Conservatives. Literally heading backwards.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, at least they wouldn't kill it. Maybe you are right, and we should give the Liberals a chance. Honestly, I have just started paying attention to Canadian politics again after a long hiatus (I used to work for the CPC and got disenchanted), so I am open for a reasonable argument.

Do you honestly think a federal political party in Canada wants to kill, let alone is capable of, killing the oil and gas industry in Alberta?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Do you honestly think a federal political party in Canada wants to kill, let alone is capable of, killing the oil and gas industry in Alberta?

I do. When I hear a star candidate come out and say that the oil will just have to be left in the ground, and no one actually refutes that from the party, it gives a pretty clear indication of their thoughts on the oilsands.