Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

From what I can tell, and I definitely could be wrong, but the conservatives are the only option that won't go postal on the oil and gas sector which is what feeds my family and keeps me working. Given the already insane myriad of challenges facing industry and my skill set, as much as I agree with other party's social policies the fact that they have the most mindbogglingly stupid platforms towards oil and gas which by the way, is important to the Canadian economy and my future, there aren't really options as I value having a job above marijuana being legal or not.

Can't argue with that (and marijuana is about the last thing anyone should be worrying about right now, although the PM is talking about it today, oddly enough, and bull####ting while he's at it) but all we are getting is bad news and they've been running the show for 10 years.

I'm not particularly impressed about any of them, but I guess I'm the least impressed by the only group who has been able to make an impression.

[rubecube]

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

Ask the Koch brothers. They have huge stakes in the Alberta O&G . Do you think they actually give 2 ####s about anything other then their bottem line no ####ing way. It's all about the money Lebowski.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

I guess so, do you own a house and can my family come live in it? Is it bad to vote purely out of self interest? I just have a gut feel that when I'm on the street with my two kids collecting bottles I won't give a rats ass what the status of climate change is.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

1. Not sure what you mean, they've set targets, what would you expect them to do?. I won't get into my entire views on climate change in this thread (to be clear, I do think it's real, yes I think it's man-made), but this is not really a significant area of concern for me personally.

2. I don't really put this at the feet of the federal government. What do you expect them to do? Wouldn't this be more in the bailey wick of provincial governments?

My issues with Harper are the "tough on crime" bull####, C-51, anti-science and general rhetoric. But none of those tip the scales in favour of the NDP which would, in my opinion, be a disaster for the province, country and of course, me personally. I could vote Liberal but I don't see them winning this election, so between the Cons and NDP, it's the lesser of two evils.

[Daradon]

Yeah, the smartest people on the planet, names like Hawking and DeGrasse-Tyson believe that climate change is not only the biggest threat facing mankind today, but has now even surpassed the dangers of nuclear proliferation in the 70's. But what do they know?

Anyway, ignoring that, cause I know I'm not going to change any hearts or minds, I am very curious about Harper's gamble with saying he'd ban travel to certain countries. Is there really anyone that thinks this is a good idea? Does this appeal to the conservative base? One of his election promises is actually that he will take away more of your freedoms. Sounds like a weird stance. I mean, I know he'd WANT to do it if elected, but I think it would be something he'd want to enact on the down low.

Is there really people on the board that get excited about that? I mean, I get that it would probably not mean a lot to many people, and that there are already laws in place that prohibit people from leaving to join terrorist organizations, so the law itself may not mean much. So then why do it? I mean if someone is going to circumvent the current laws, they'll circumvent the new ones. It literally does nothing. It's posturing. Which strikes me as weird, cause he's betting that people right now are so scared they are saying, 'yay! Take away more of our freedoms to protect us from the boogyman!' Seems like a weird thing to do, even for the pro security crowd.

Does this strategy appeal to the base? Captain? Tranny?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I guess so, do you own a house and can my family come live in it? Is it bad to vote purely out of self interest? I just have a gut feel that when I'm on the street with my two kids collecting bottles I won't give a rats ass what the status of climate change is.

Well If your in the streets you may care about climate change . After all you are living out side in that climate. This is short sighted objection as you'll be dead by the time the change is is rwally felt and will have just passed the buck to your kids and grandkids . This is acatully what our grndparwnts and parwnts did to us the cycle has to stop somewhere. The damage has already gotten pass the point of no rwturn we need to set precedent now before we totally destroy ourselves.

Originally Posted by corporatejay

1. Not sure what you mean, they've set targets, what would you expect them to do?. I won't get into my entire views on climate change in this thread (to be clear, I do think it's real, yes I think it's man-made), but this is not really a significant area of concern for me personally.

2. I don't really put this at the feet of the federal government. What do you expect them to do? Wouldn't this be more in the bailey wick of provincial governments?

My issues with Harper are the "tough on crime" bull####, C-51, anti-science and general rhetoric. But none of those tip the scales in favour of the NDP which would, in my opinion, be a disaster for the province, country and of course, me personally. I could vote Liberal but I don't see them winning this election, so between the Cons and NDP, it's the lesser of two evils.

1)Setting targets doesn't really mean anything unless you actuallt meet those targets. We aren't going to meet our 2020 targets so now they have set new tatgets for 2030. Words don't mean anything unless you actually have backed them up. Procrastinating doesn't do any good for no one.
2)Yes, It should be. Your suppose to be the leader of the whole damn country. Set a damn example, show some damn backbone.
3)I dont agree with those not tipping the scale in favour of the NDP. If those are the issues you have with voting conservative but still vote anyway then they are not really a concern to you as those partain to a majority of Harpers government platform. Harper said it himself he only cares about Econ and Security . He has failed the economy tremendously since 2006 and his veiws on joing every war he can is archaic.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fire

You mean like how every political party acts? The NDP and it's $15/day daycare...

Yes, but cheap daycare fits into NDP's policy and platform. it makes sense that the NDP would support it. Harper's home reno credit? It's about the least conservative thing you can do economically. Same with cash handouts to families. They aren't conservative policies, they are vote-getters. Buying votes with our tax dollars.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

-snip-
I want these guys to get their pee pee's slapped a bit. Ideally Stevie gets a minority government, gets rattled to his core by the opposition, has enough and steps down and some knight in shining armour like Peter McKay steps up to bring them back to former glory. -snip-

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

McKay has proven himself an untrustworthy weasel. Surly you can aspire to something greater than him.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

McKay has proven himself an untrustworthy weasel. Surly you can aspire to something greater than him.

Well McKay retired from politics as well. I guess he could come back, but it doesn't appear likely to be him. Instead of McKay you probably get Jason Kenney.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

Serious question, what would constitute an appropriate response in your mind, and be specific.
For me, honestly, if Canada was to cut all our emissions it wouldn't make a difference in global terms. That doesn't mean we pump out all we can but this collective hand wringing and guilting a lot of people here seem to be doing is over the top.
Personally I prefer to be warm in the winter but that's just me.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

No denying climate change and it needs to be taken seriously but the oilsands are only 0.12% of global GHG. A rounding error basically. Canada can and will do better but we have to look at our role in the global picture.

We cannot kill jobs and industry when globally we aren't the problem. Canada needs to balance jobs vs. environment. I'd need to be convinced of this balance from the NDP or Liberals and that they'll stick up for industry before I'd vote for them.

[Ashartus]

Based on their platform I don't think the Liberals would be a disaster for the oil and gas industry. They might be harder on it than the Conservatives (more environmental regulation in particular, and more aggressive climate change policy, though to me those are things we need). The NDP might be a different story - a lot of people I know who I would consider to have a very good understanding of the industry are pretty worried about the possibility of a federal NDP government and think things would get a whole lot worse here than they already are.

[PantherExtreme]

Actually at recent climate summits Canada has been one of the main problems and continues to do anything possible to weaken agreements and targets other nations leadership are trying to set. France has had what 70+% electricity by low carbon sources for decades now? It is feasible and there really is no excuse for what were doing.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by pepper24

No denying climate change and it needs to be taken seriously but the oilsands are only 0.12% of global GHG. A rounding error basically. Canada can and will do better but we have to look at our role in the global picture.

We cannot kill jobs and industry when globally we aren't the problem. Canada needs to balance jobs vs. environment. I'd need to be convinced of this balance from the NDP or Liberals and that they'll stick up for industry before I'd vote for them.

Well the NDP has done nothing to convince me of that fact. In the debate and leading up to this election though Trudeau consistently spoken of the need to grow and balance this growth with environmental factors. His point that the need to factor in the environment doesn't mean that we should grow is basically exactly how I feel on the issue.

Couple that with the point he has made continually about the oilsands being an enormous benefit and continued campaigning here in Alberta on that point and I think you have a pretty solid stance from them. ll that needs to happen to bolster that is to send a good group of Liberals to Ottawa who are in that same vein.

[Slava]

In other more interesting news, the PM saying he had no idea of the goings on in the Duffy affair are being shredded by Nigel Wright on the stand. Its all on twitter at this point if you're interested, but essentially Wright says he "litigated the case" in front of Harper. I don't see how Harper could claim no knowledge of this when his Chief of Staff says that.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

In other more interesting news, the PM saying he had no idea of the goings on in the Duffy affair are being shredded by Nigel Wright on the stand. Its all on twitter at this point if you're interested, but essentially Wright says he "litigated the case" in front of Harper. I don't see how Harper could claim no knowledge of this when his Chief of Staff says that.

One thing that bugs me about Harper more than anything is his lack of accountability. Nothing is ever his fault, meanwhile he leaves a trail of bodies with bus tire marks behind him

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

Considering the manufacturing sector is booming with the lower dollar, it seems like we really didn't put all of our eggs in one basket, did we?

Also, the biggest issue I have with climate change, is that we stupidly agree to measure in "per capita" terms, when frankly, the environment does not give two ####s about per capita. It cares about absolute numbers, and per sq/km2 might be a better way to measure our actual effect on the environment.

The problem is that we are an extremely large country, with extremely high productivity in the resource extraction sector. We also have some of the toughest environmental regulations in the world, which makes our operations both sustainable and efficient. However, the reality of the situation is that we only have 35 million people, punching well above our weight.

The oilsands are an extremely valuable asset, and we (as in Canada and Canadians) have bent over backwards to make it the most sustainable and efficient resource development project in the entire world. Is it "pretty" in any way in the end? No. But we've done more than our part as a first world country.

It's time for Russia, Africa, China, Brazil and those countries, who actually pollute the world with far worse than we can even imagine to work on their goals as well. Canada is just an easy target on the international stage - weak, soft, and capitulates to any resistance (and also starts internally bickering, even on an international level). I'd like us to stop doing that.

Having said all that, the rhetoric coming out of the Liberal camp aligns the most with my values on the economy. The NDP is just crazy.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Serious question, do people in the O&G sector who vote purely out of self-interest just completely ignore the Conservatives refusal to adequately address climate change and economic diversification?

I think Pepper addressed my thoughts on the industry and climate change.

As for the diversification argument I don't think people get it. Canada has resources, and development of them results in economic benefits. Not developing them does not lead to equal or even similar economic benefits moving to other sectors, it just simply leads to less economic activity in the country overall. So we can achieve 'diversification' but at a cost of lower economic development. Not necessarily a desirable outcome. The argument for the oilsands is that we're playing the hand we have economically to maximize Canada's benefit.

[Maccalus]

Originally Posted by PantherExtreme

France has had what 70+% electricity by low carbon sources for decades now? It is feasible and there really is no excuse for what were doing.

I hate to nitpick, but Canada's electricity production has been mainly (over 80%) from low carbon sources for decades as well. It is other industries and consumers who drive it in Canada.

In 2010, the leading type of power generation by utilities in Canada is hydroelectricity, with a share of 63.7%. nuclear (15.0%), Coal (13.1%), natural gas (6.2%), wind (0.6%), fuel oil (0.5%), and wood (0.4%) follow. Other sources, such as petroleum coke make up the remaining 0.5%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...ctor_in_Canada