Countdown Poll - Flames captains

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I offered up my opinions on why I think Giordano has done more to change a franchise than any other captain in NHL history.

My opinion.

That's a big statement. Aside from the leadership Hartley showed (the galvanizing point was all Hartley in the Canucks brawl) I think the entire franchise changed post-Iginla, Feaster, Etc. I think Giordano gets more than his share of the credit and factors such as Treliving, Burke, the coaching staff (outside of Hartley), the vets (Hudler/Wideman), scouts, etc get less than their share of the credit.

What a big change to the Flames when Conroy handed the captaincy to Iginla. The team makes the playoffs for the first time in several years for some of the same reasons the Gio lead Flames did - hard work, never quit, full team buy in. To give Gio credit for 2014-15 one should give similar credit to Iginla.

Gio has 2 years as captain. Even if you want to discount the last few years of Iginla's leadership, I still think it's way too premature to have Gio this high or to say he did more to change a franchise than any other captain in history. In 2020 it might be Gio, but not now.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

What does that have to do with "hate"?

More to do with the Taylor Swift swipe. Reading this thread, Bingo has been easily the most hyper-defensive poster when encountering people who disagree with him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

More to do with the Taylor Swift swipe. Reading this thread, Bingo has been easily the most hyper-defensive poster when encountering people who disagree with him.

You're certainly welcome to see it that way.

I'd ask you go back and look and see if I in anyway tell anyone that they voted wrong, or insanely though. Takes one to suggest someone voted wrong to solicit any kind of defense from me, so to me the response was asked for not volunteered.

Part of the benefit of owning a site is knowing what's coming from doing this 15 years and I've seen in the past that if Iginla is questioned in any way you tend to get into a hell storm.

And I did.

and the Taylor Swift swipe was also a direct response to the Haters going to Hate suggestion.

I've never hated Iginla and said all three guys are good choices in this poll.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that Kipper was the Flames greatest captain? Kipper would have been my choice for the Conn Smythe. Iggy was the name most frequently mentioned by the media (who are the ones who vote on it), though. However Kipper's name isn't in this poll for some reason. Oh yeah... he wasn't a captain! Why bring him into this discussion at all??

Did I say he was captain?, I would go back and check my post but i won't waste my time because I know I didn't... just because you make something up doesn't mean I said it

I was pointing out that Iginla didn't carry the team on his back 2004 and that Kipper the reason for our success. If you are going to credit Iginla for something Kipper did as reasoning for you voting for Iginla... you can because you can vote whatever way you like. But if you are implying that Iginla carried Kipper on his back.. sorry don't buy it

But I'm sure not going to snub Kipper for his role on out team and ignore it

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

My point exactly. The person I was responding to thought that the poll would "prove" who was "right" on an inherently subjective question.

If you feel that way, then maybe your comment about the "majority opinion is not always the correct opinion" may have been worded incorrectly.

[FudsMcDuff]

I'm interested in knowing who folks think our next captain will be...
(not that I condone removing it from Gio,..or shipping him out in any way)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Giordano has done more to change a franchise than any other captain in NHL history.

My opinion.

Hyperbole for effect? I understand the focus is on "change a franchise" vs. greatest captain ever but feels like this is wading into Jean Beliveau, Lou Gehrig territory.

I hope you turn out to be right. It would be fun to debate this in a few years if there ends up being a record to support it.

The history (or what we know of it) for 9 and 12 as captain is there for us to evaluate. Gio's story as captain has much left to be written. It is off to a good start.

[Poe969]

It would be a hec of a lot easier if this thread was titled "statistically who is the best captain..." It seems that if you voted for someone and a fellow poster disagrees, you're wrong. I agree that since Gio has been the captain, there has been a change in how the team plays and prepares for things and I believe that its an improvement so much so that team went from supposed to be a lottery team to a playoff team in 2 years. I think Iggy was great but I think my opinion of him as a captain are tainted because of the last couple of years. I guess anyone who didn't vote properly is wrong.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Hyperbole for effect? I understand the focus is on "change a franchise" vs. greatest captain ever but feels like this is wading into Jean Beliveau, Lou Gehrig territory.

I hope you turn out to be right. It would be fun to debate this in a few years if there ends up being a record to support it.

The history (or what we know of it) for 9 and 12 as captain is there for us to evaluate. Gio's story as captain has much left to be written. It is off to a good start.

Wow that's funny ... meant Flames history. Freudian slip!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're certainly welcome to see it that way.

I'd ask you go back and look and see if I in anyway tell anyone that they voted wrong, or insanely though. Takes one to suggest someone voted wrong to solicit any kind of defense from me, so to me the response was asked for not volunteered.

Part of the benefit of owning a site is knowing what's coming from doing this 15 years and I've seen in the past that if Iginla is questioned in any way you tend to get into a hell storm.

And I did.

and the Taylor Swift swipe was also a direct response to the Haters going to Hate suggestion.

I've never hated Iginla and said all three guys are good choices in this poll.

We both knew this thread was always going to be a pro- and anti-Iginla hell storm. But take a look at the posts. All but one of the first ten comments (including your first) were focused on extolling the positive virtues of one of three players - Gio, Iggy or Lanny. The one that didn't simply argued against Iginla on the basis of team performance. Meh.

Then you came along and took a needless swipe at people who supported Iginla before getting defensive over people who took swipes at people supporting Gio.

As to the series of comments that led to your Taylor Swift arguments, people like Flash Walken are haters. And if you've read pretty much and thread that has even mentioned Iginla, I am betting you know that too. I don't think you are a hater, but for some inexplicable reason to seem to have taken personal offence to a comment directed at someone else.

[TX_Flame]

Duplicate post

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Did I say he was captain?, I would go back and check my post but i won't waste my time because I know I didn't... just because you make something up doesn't mean I said it

I was pointing out that Iginla didn't carry the team on his back 2004 and that Kipper the reason for our success. If you are going to credit Iginla for something Kipper did as reasoning for you voting for Iginla... you can because you can vote whatever way you like. But if you are implying that Iginla carried Kipper on his back.. sorry don't buy it

But I'm sure not going to snub Kipper for his role on out team and ignore it

And I never said Kipper wasn't in the conversation for the Conn Smythe, either. So I guess you "just made THAT up". I am not the only one to bring up the enormous role that Iggy (and Kipper) played in the '04 SC run. Why don't you go and flame them too? Most SC Championship teams have some outstanding goaltending. That doesn't take away from the efforts of their team leaders, especially not when there is such a talent gap on the rest of the team (other than the goalie). Nobody is snubbing Kipper, especially not me. He is just not relevant in a discussion about captains.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

We both knew this thread was always going to be a pro- and anti-Iginla hell storm. But take a look at the posts. All but one of the first ten comments (including your first) were focused on extolling the positive virtues of one of three players - Gio, Iggy or Lanny. The one that didn't simply argued against Iginla on the basis of team performance. Meh.

Then you came along and took a needless swipe at people who supported Iginla before getting defensive over people who took swipes at people supporting Gio.

As to the series of comments that led to your Taylor Swift arguments, people like Flash Walken are haters. And if you've read pretty much and thread that has even mentioned Iginla, I am betting you know that too. I don't think you are a hater, but for some inexplicable reason to seem to have taken personal offence to a comment directed at someone else.

Why attack the post when you can attack the poster, amirite?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I do think that Giordano did a heck of a job the last two seasons. However, did he do a better job than Iginla in his first 2 seasons as captain? I don't know.

I do think that the first few years of Iginla's tenure as captain was without a doubt the best captaincy for quite some time before, and quite some time since. Yep, people will choose to vote for others because of how the rest of his captaincy ended up - the team were far from a hard working lovable team for sure, and there were various (and quite possibly, credible) questions about him as captain. Will Giordano 'slip up' as well?

I chose Lanny simply because he altered the team (seemingly) and was a huge presence (and still is) in the community, and had the respect of every player on that team. Had Iginla kept it up like he did in his first few years - pushing that team like he did at first - I don't think I could have voted Lanny on this one. I personally can't see Giordano ahead of Iginla at this point - really because I don't think he has had quite the same effect as Iginla originally did. Maybe he will get a bit complacent like Iginla did as well. Can anyone say with a straight face that they saw Iginla getting complacent after that '04 run? No way in H E double hockey sticks! Still, I can definitely see why people would vote Giordano ahead of Iginla (or ahead of anyone). He simply has been a very good captain.

Related to captaincy, I really wonder who in fact has more of an effect on the culture and the team - a captain, or a coach? I side with the coach. Best captaincy periods do align fairly well with the best coaching periods. Becomes very difficult to differentiate between the two - at least for me it is.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I really wonder who in fact has more of an effect on the culture and the team - a captain, or a coach? I side with the coach. Best captaincy periods do align fairly well with the best coaching periods. Becomes very difficult to differentiate between the two - at least for me it is.

In general, you're probably right, but the exceptions can be important. I voted for Lanny, as I mentioned earlier. Terry Crisp won a Stanley Cup and two President's Trophies with Lanny as captain. Without Lanny, the team bowed out in the first round and Crisp was fired. The coach was the same, but the results were hugely different. Most of that has to be on the change of leaders in the dressing room.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wow that's funny ... meant Flames history. Freudian slip!

Ha ha - I agree with what you are saying now! Even if you don't rank Gio in the top 2, he does seem to have made a major contribution to a rapid culture change.

But yeah, no need to grant him sainthood just yet.

[foshizzle11]

So I just watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU8X...4#action=share
and it justifies Iggy as the best captain in this franchise. He fought, scored, assisted and represented better than anyone ever has. He was the best captain in Flames history for sure. Iggy, Iggy, Iggy, Oi, Oi, Oi. I just hope some day Gio or any other Flame can be as great as he ever was.

I might have had a bit of fun tonight, but anyone who has been a fan for 20 years or more knows that Iggy was the best captain. When he was on, he was the best. I love that he would pick fights and win them, I love that he would score huge goals and I love that he won Olympic gold medals for Canada. He was great and no other flame was better. The video proves it.

I think I would love to hear Derek Wills say "Gaudreau, to Monahan to Iginla, he scores" I didn't think it was ok before but I might think it is ok for him to retire here. 1 season with Iggy getting a dish from Gaudreau or Monahan would me amazing. If he is close to 40 and can contribute on the 4th line after the trade deadline, do it please BT and mini donald trump...I mean Brian Burke. Iggy was a class act. He can only help us win.