Countdown Poll - Flames captains

[schooner]

I have not voted. As a post millennial fan I can really only speak to Conroy, Iggy and Gio. Maybe Lanny based on stories. But I appreciate everybody's opinion.

If it was narrowed down to my time frame I would say Gio based on culture change, with HM to Iggy for what he did for the team and the city.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Iggy was #1 it's not even close.

I eventually voted for Iggy, but it was VERY close. I suspect that anyone who shares your opinion was not around for Lanny's captaincy.

[chubeyr1]

2004 Iggy hands down versus any captain anywhere. What he did that playoff series was beyond human! Leading his team!

I got lots of hate in me about Iggy, much prefer Gio as captain, Gio shows his teammates what it takes to be an nhler day to day and how we play. Great leader.

What Jarome did in 2004.......... He not only led his team he willed them to win. Every player on that roster bought in! Even a young Mark Giordano.

Iggy has been an overpaid floater for years, still talented, but he earned that right to be a floater.

Pick the best captain ever? Lanny or Gio would be the long term choice, short term Iggy in 2004. Nothing comes close to that, not just with the Flames, the entire league, and the world at that moment! 2004 he was probably the most dominant hockey player. You couldn't get a better leader at that moment.

I would also like to mention Class? How the players handle themselves on and off the ice! Those top three for me, Its a tie!

[Strange Brew]

Color me surprised that two of the old timers on here (Jiri and Bingo) have Iginla outside of the top 2. I have read their reasons and they certainly have merit but it is kind of like having a poll on all time greatest toothpaste and putting Crest outside of the top 2. Of course there are no right or wrong answers on this but it is a fun debate.

I agree with all of the questions surrounding Iginla's leadership at the end of his tenure but to me there are two gigantic factors you both are underweighting:

1) We simply can't see much of what a captain does. As a result it is natural to link elements of the teams performance to the captain and leader. But for the things we can directly see - performance on the ice, public leader etc. Well Lanny and Iginla simply did this at a superb level for far longer than anyone else on the list.

2) Although not totally fair, I feel the team's performance needs to be great during the captain's tenure to qualify as an all time great captain. Sadly the Flames history is a little short of accomplishments outside of 86,89 and 04. I know McDonald shared the captaincy in 86 and 89, but I'm not putting Pepper, Hunter or Risebrough on this list.

Lanny's sweater hangs from the rafters. Iginla's will one day. Both will end up in the HOF based significantly on their accomplishments while captain of the Calgary Flames. They are top two, in a category of their own, in my mind.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Yes, him too. but Iggy was in the conversation for the Conn Smythe if the Flames had won the series (5 games to 2).

Not sure what you mean by this, are you saying Kipper would not have been in the conversation for the Conn Smythe if the Flames had won the series (5 games to 2)

It works both ways

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Color me surprised that two of the old timers on here (Jiri and Bingo) have Iginla outside of the top 2. I have read their reasons and they certainly have merit but it is kind of like having a poll on all time greatest toothpaste and putting Crest outside of the top 2. Of course there are no right or wrong answers on this but it is a fun debate.

I agree with all of the questions surrounding Iginla's leadership at the end of his tenure but to me there are two gigantic factors you both are underweighting:

1) We simply can't see much of what a captain does. As a result it is natural to link elements of the teams performance to the captain and leader. But for the things we can directly see - performance on the ice, public leader etc. Well Lanny and Iginla simply did this at a superb level for far longer than anyone else on the list.

2) Although not totally fair, I feel the team's performance needs to be great during the captain's tenure to qualify as an all time great captain. Sadly the Flames history is a little short of accomplishments outside of 86,89 and 04. I know McDonald shared the captaincy in 86 and 89, but I'm not putting Pepper, Hunter or Risebrough on this list.

Lanny's sweater hangs from the rafters. Iginla's will one day. Both will end up in the HOF based significantly on their accomplishments while captain of the Calgary Flames. They are top two, in a category of their own, in my mind.

Iggy will get one of those FAF banners with his picture on it. They aren't doing jersey retirement any more.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Not sure what you mean by this, are you saying Kipper would not have been in the conversation for the Conn Smythe if the Flames had won the series (5 games to 2)

It works both ways

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that Kipper was the Flames greatest captain? Kipper would have been my choice for the Conn Smythe. Iggy was the name most frequently mentioned by the media (who are the ones who vote on it), though. However Kipper's name isn't in this poll for some reason. Oh yeah... he wasn't a captain! Why bring him into this discussion at all??

[Daradon]

Picked Lanny, just because. He's got the cup to prove it. Also still holds the Flame goal scoring record at 66. Second only to Wayne that year, and a goal total that many top players on many other teams never reached. Different era, but did Crosby ever get 66? (actually he never even got 52, Iggy's top, but you know what I mean) Also, nice to end on a high note.

Iggy maybe best captain in the early years, maybe waned in the latter. Got all the records but the one I mentioned, but no cup. And seemed to lose his edge and competitive spirit after 07. Well, compared to 02 and 04. Still great, just maybe second.

Fleury, great player. Horrible captain.

Honorable mention to the chatty Craig Conroy. Love that guy. Great Flame, and becoming a kick ass executive.

Also to Smith, who did more for us as an Oiler than a Flame.

EDIT: Gio is making a strong case, and a cup may push him over the edge, but a way to go yet.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

A little upset that I was the only one to vote for Brad McCrimmon. Incredibly underrated leader and player. Sarge was the best.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Or the poll could simply indicate how much people remember. How many people on here even experienced Lanny's captaincy or watched him play? The majority opinion is not necessarily correct.

First off I was front and center when Lanny played in Calgary, not before my time.

I have him 2nd, after Giordano.

Secondly, the poll was constructed to collect opinions so it is correct. I think the thing you're having trouble with is people disagree with you.

I have no issue with Iginla or McDonald winning the public opinion on this, they were both fine choices. I had narry a word against anyone that voted for either of those options. When hearing you're insane, unreal, or wrong to vote for anyone else I offered up my opinions on why I think Giordano has done more to change a franchise than any other captain in NHL history.

My opinion.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Well done. It's just like Flash Walkin to connect those non existent dots though. Haters gonna hate.

Hate?

That's classic.

Maybe Taylor Swift needs a song "I get upset when people disagree with me", would be cute, they could get a cop to limp sink it in a squad car.

And I said he altered the culture, which I feel he did. Didn't say the Flames went on a rip and didn't lose for two seasons.

One veteran group went out the door, the team got worse (rebuild), a new leadership was born, team was still bad, but now you could get behind it. Important point in Flames history.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Bingo

One veteran group went out the door, the team got worse (rebuild), a new leadership was born, team was still bad, but now you could get behind it. Important point in Flames history.

You're taking a lot of things that happened well removed from the leadership change and chalking them up to leadership. As I said previously, the Flames were terrible under the first effective season with Giordano as captain. And the record shows that there was no discernable difference in effort or commitment that people are trying to attribute to Iginla vs. Giordano.

And to say that "a new leadership was born"? Giordano was an established player on the ice and in the dressing room. According to Brent Sutter, who some have cited in defense of Giordano, he had been a leader for years. If Iginla's lack of leadership late in his tenure was a big contributor to the way the Flames performed on the ice during that period, and Giordano's leadership was really that superior, you would have expected to see evidence of a culture change, at minimum, coming out of camp in 13-14. But go to that post-game thread I linked to above and you there's no evidence of it, even in late January - you still see despondent fans turning off games early, and with no hope of success any time soon.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Mike F

You're taking a lot of things that happened well removed from the leadership change and chalking them up to leadership. As I said previously, the Flames were terrible under the first effective season with Giordano as captain. And the record shows that there was no discernable difference in effort or commitment that people are trying to attribute to Iginla vs. Giordano.

And as I said previously, the year they were "terrible" as per their record, was the year that the culture materially changed and you could see it on the ice from the very beginning. Right after Iggy left. While I agree that it was the Canucks brawl that galvanized the team as you pointed out previously, the work ethic and commitment was there from the very beginning.

You keep going back to their record the season after Iggy left as an indication that their effort and commitment was the same under Gio and Iggy. It very clearly wasn't.

Ps - there are always despondent fans in the GTs during losses. Even this year.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bingo

First off I was front and center when Lanny played in Calgary, not before my time.

I have him 2nd, after Giordano.

Secondly, the poll was constructed to collect opinions so it is correct. I think the thing you're having trouble with is people disagree with you.

I have no issue with Iginla or McDonald winning the public opinion on this, they were both fine choices. I had narry a word against anyone that voted for either of those options. When hearing you're insane, unreal, or wrong to vote for anyone else I offered up my opinions on why I think Giordano has done more to change a franchise than any other captain in NHL history.

My opinion.

And I have no problem with your opinion. I do have a problem with people implying someone's opinion is wrong simply because it's not the most popular one in a poll whose results are likely skewed by the demographics of the respondents. You may have been around for Lanny's captaincy and you are fully entitled to your opinion about it, however many posters have admitted that they didn't even consider Lanny because they couldn't offer an opinion on what they hadn't seen.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mike F

You're taking a lot of things that happened well removed from the leadership change and chalking them up to leadership. As I said previously, the Flames were terrible under the first effective season with Giordano as captain. And the record shows that there was no discernable difference in effort or commitment that people are trying to attribute to Iginla vs. Giordano.

You didn't notice a change from day one of that season that the Flames showed up every night?

They worked hard.

They were scrappy.

Hell all you have to do is search Hartley quotes and him discussing how they got standing ovations after losses.

When you take Iginla, Kiprusoff and Bouwmeester out of a lineup you expect to get worse, but turning that into a competitive team by mid season has a lot to do with leadership.

[Poe969]

Sure they had a poor record during Gio's first year as captain but they were expected to be terrible. They really didn't have a lot in the terms of talent but every game was a nail biter for both teams. Even though the Flames were a low standing team, teams didn't take them lightly like they would the oilers. Gio's first season as captain was probably the most entertaining season in years because of their effort, and that was because certain players were gone and certain players became more important.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Or the poll could simply indicate how much people remember. How many people on here even experienced Lanny's captaincy or watched him play? The majority opinion is not necessarily correct.

No need to focus on "correct" or "incorrect" opinions. People can disagree with you.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hate?

That's classic.

Maybe Taylor Swift needs a song "I get upset when people disagree with me", would be cute, they could get a cop to limp sink it in a squad car.

That is hilarious coming from someone who posted this almost from the start:

Originally Posted by Bingo

always tough to venture into a debate with the Iginla crowd.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No need to focus on "correct" or "incorrect" opinions. People can disagree with you.

My point exactly. The person I was responding to thought that the poll would "prove" who was "right" on an inherently subjective question.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That is hilarious coming from someone who posted this almost from the start:

What does that have to do with "hate"?