[Rumour] Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Revenues were much lower in the '90s. The Canadian dollar was much lower in the '90s. The Flames inability to compete was more a product of the enormous separation that existed between teams without any limitations on spending, and those with severe limitations. The cap has effectively created a balance in spending that dramatically reduces the potential for this form of inequality. In other words, with the existence of HRR and a cap, the devalue in the Canadian dollar will impact HRR which affects ALL teams. In the '90s there was no such limitations in place that governed spending.

In other words, this is likely not an issue.

As I said it won't be as much of an issue where the team was threatening to move but it still could affect our budget. Going by my memory as reported by Forbes, the Flames haven't been a moneymaker even in their last playoff years. I'm sure the last couple of years since we sold off our assets have been good moneymakers though.

The Saddledome just isn't a good money producer and that's part of the reason the team wants a new arena and this new arena could put more pressure on the teams finances.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

As I said it won't be as much of an issue where the team was threatening to move but it still could affect our budget. Going by my memory as reported by Forbes, the Flames haven't been a moneymaker even in their last playoff years. I'm sure the last couple of years since we sold off our assets have been good moneymakers though.

The Saddledome just isn't a good money producer and that's part of the reason the team wants a new arena and this new arena could put more pressure on the teams finances.

Forbes estimates the Flames had a profit of over $11M in each of 12-13 and 13-14. The dollar was last at around the level of the 14-15 season in 08-09, when the Flames were estimated to break even. With more home playoff games in 14-15, it's safe to assume the Flames still turned a profit last season.

With the higher payroll and lower (for now) dollar, maybe that won't be the case in 15-16. Time will tell.

[heep223]

Fun fact: if the ownership group bought the team for $16M in 1980 and sold it today for $450M, that's a 10% rate of return. That's not exactly the type of return to be expected from a private, entrepreneurial venture. Factoring in inflation over that time period and you get a real return of 7-8%. They've probably lost 10s of millions of operating dollars along the way as well. Goes to show, owning sports teams isn't all that lucrative unless you're in the very top markets.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by heep223

Fun fact: if the ownership group bought the team for $16M in 1980 and sold it today for $450M, that's a 10% rate of return. That's not exactly the type of return to be expected from a private, entrepreneurial venture. Factoring in inflation over that time period and you get a real return of 7-8%. They've probably lost 10s of millions of operating dollars along the way as well. Goes to show, owning sports teams isn't all that lucrative unless you're in the very top markets.

Don't forget to add in the periodic bonuses for things like expansion

[Da_Chief]

Bit bored and Jason Bell thread on the Back Burner got me thinking what a guy like
Giordano was thought of when he was signed.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...light=giordano

Check out this gem from everyone's favorite moon, when Gio was returning from Russia.

If we let Vandermeer leave for a 7th/8th guy like Giordano, I hope the next guy out the door is Sutter.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Bit bored and Jason Bell thread on the Back Burner got me thinking what a guy like
Giordano was thought of when he was signed.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...light=giordano

Check out this gem from everyone's favorite moon, when Gio was returning from Russia.

Those poster during that controversy who sarcastically said that Giordano was the saviour didn't realize that their sarcasm would turn on them.

IIRC both Giordano and Richie Regehr were both thought of as great FA finds while in the minors. Richie's still playing over in Germany.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

I remember Richie Regehr having unreal speed in NHL 05 or whatever year it was.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Bit bored and Jason Bell thread on the Back Burner got me thinking what a guy like
Giordano was thought of when he was signed.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...light=giordano

Check out this gem from everyone's favorite moon, when Gio was returning from Russia.

Whatever happened to moon?, I believe it was him who said after Gaudreau's rookie year at Boston scoring a PPG that he would never be a regular NHL player.

I remember accusing him of being a closet Oiler or Canuck fan and never heard from him again. oh well.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

As I said it won't be as much of an issue where the team was threatening to move but it still could affect our budget. Going by my memory as reported by Forbes, the Flames haven't been a moneymaker even in their last playoff years. I'm sure the last couple of years since we sold off our assets have been good moneymakers though.

The Saddledome just isn't a good money producer and that's part of the reason the team wants a new arena and this new arena could put more pressure on the teams finances.

Last playoff years?

Unless your going back six years, there has only been one. And I was under the impression that they did very well, because they were about 28 mill below the cap and still got two playoff series. Not to mention ticket prices have rose every year.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not against the organization for their pricing. As I've mentioned before, they've taken big losses in the past, kept the team here, been great in the community, and generally been one of the top owner teams in the league.

I also agree that the Saddledome is not made for profit the way the new arenas are.

I just take issue that they weren't a moneymaker this year. I'm pretty sure they hit it big. Two series of playoff revenue, with high pricing (all Canadian teams have high pricing, not complaining), while being lucky enough to be about 35% below the cap. Probably Forbes hasn't done that yet. If you are talking last 10 years, then yeah, maybe even with the few runs we had it was give or take. This year?

The thing about history, is it's like stats. Easy to count the periods you want to make your point.

[Stupid]

Originally Posted by T@T

Whatever happened to moon?, I believe it was him who said after Gaudreau's rookie year at Boston scoring a PPG that he would never be a regular NHL player.

I remember accusing him of being a closet Oiler or Canuck fan and never heard from him again. oh well.

He got banned if I recall correctly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by heep223

Fun fact: if the ownership group bought the team for $16M in 1980 and sold it today for $450M, that's a 10% rate of return. That's not exactly the type of return to be expected from a private, entrepreneurial venture. Factoring in inflation over that time period and you get a real return of 7-8%. They've probably lost 10s of millions of operating dollars along the way as well. Goes to show, owning sports teams isn't all that lucrative unless you're in the very top markets.

Leaving aside the obvious fact that the ownership group is not the same, it's pretty apparent that owning a sports franchise is not an regular venture, in fact, it's not even designed to make profit.

I am given to understand that the Flames have made pretty good piles of money over the last while though. In the NHL they are one of the more profitable teams.

[Makarov]

Nm

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Stupid

He got banned if I recall correctly.

Banned and tried coming back under a different name. Didn't last long the 2nd time.

[Hackey]

Maybe he's back a 3rd time...

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Honest question:

Is missing the playoffs an absolute failure for next year?

We expected to be bottom 3 bad last year.

Some basic progression would have us in the middle of the team's missing the dance this year.. Do we make / not make moves that have negative long term outcome to try to do it this year?

I think it would be because the bottom three prediction last year was proven to be a very poor one. Given how the season played out, you need to readjust expectations to better reflect what happened, which was a team that qualified for the playoffs and pushed into the second round. They added a top pairing defenceman, a top 6 veteran forward and a full season of a 4th overall draft pick.

[Pliddy]

I know the Calgary Flames have had up and down years as a business, but I wonder how the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Group does on a year end spread sheet? Pure speculation on my part, but I would think the whole organization has healthy returns

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Pliddy

I know the Calgary Flames have had up and down years as a business, but I wonder how the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Group does on a year end spread sheet? Pure speculation on my part, but I would think the whole organization has healthy returns

You think they make money on the roughnecks and hitmen? Oh and everyone knows owning a CFL franchise is extremely profitable?

It's not a lucrative business. It's a community and lifestyle investment. They probably made a decent return last year on the Flames but probably the first time in many, many years. Since the 04 run I'd guess. I hope they make piles of cash over the next few years because that would likely mean deep playoff runs.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by heep223

You think they make money on the roughnecks and hitmen? Oh and everyone knows owning a CFL franchise is extremely profitable?

Operating costs of the Hitmen and Roughnecks are probably pretty low - they share a lot of marketing and other operational costs - while still getting all the gate and concession revenue.
I bet the Hitmen and Riggers are both quite profitable parts of the wider business.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Last playoff years?

Unless your going back six years, there has only been one. And I was under the impression that they did very well, because they were about 28 mill below the cap and still got two playoff series. Not to mention ticket prices have rose every year.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not against the organization for their pricing. As I've mentioned before, they've taken big losses in the past, kept the team here, been great in the community, and generally been one of the top owner teams in the league.

I also agree that the Saddledome is not made for profit the way the new arenas are.

I just take issue that they weren't a moneymaker this year. I'm pretty sure they hit it big. Two series of playoff revenue, with high pricing (all Canadian teams have high pricing, not complaining), while being lucky enough to be about 35% below the cap. Probably Forbes hasn't done that yet. If you are talking last 10 years, then yeah, maybe even with the few runs we had it was give or take. This year?

The thing about history, is it's like stats. Easy to count the periods you want to make your point.

Yes, I was going back and that's why I said playoff years (plural) as opposed to last year. I went on to say that they made money the last couple of years since they traded their high price talent. I try to make myself clear but it doesn't always work.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Operating costs of the Hitmen and Roughnecks are probably pretty low - they share a lot of marketing and other operational costs - while still getting all the gate and concession revenue.
I bet the Hitmen and Riggers are both quite profitable parts of the wider business.

The Stamps, Hitmen and Roughnecks share a lot of the same staff with the Flames, too.